Author Topic: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor  (Read 1018 times)

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Offline nomorewhining

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Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« on: October 23, 2020, 11:16:52 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 11:39:34 am by nomorewhining »

Offline arreferee

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 10:04:20 am »
I have been a football coach for 34 years, and I spent a year as an official.


I understand completely about missing a holding call, or a block in the back. I learned from experience that you just can’t see everything. And I understand a young, inexperienced umpire or back judge not knowing every single rule. It takes time. But when a white hat doesn’t know the rules, or doesn’t keep up with rule changes, and when he gets belligerent when you calmly ask to discuss the rule with him at halftime, it is unacceptable.

Tonight at Bauxite, in a mercy rule game where the outcome was decided early in the 2nd quarter, the referee called back a TD because when Bauxite lined up in their “Jumbo” package with #70 at QB, he said it was illegal bc #70 didn’t “ report in”.
Report in as what? Years ago, the NFHS said that a receiver has to be eligible to receive a pass both by alignment and by eligible number. This did away with the reporting requirement, to make it easier on referees. Since linemen were no longer eligible, even if they “reported in”, it was no longer necessary to report in. So a kid in a lineman number can take a handoff, or receive the snap( a backwards pass), they just can’t catch a forward pass.

So after his mistake cost a TD, I asked if I could walk with him on the way to the field after halftime, as soon as I started going over the rule change, he says “ he has to report in. This discussion is over.” When I tried to continue the discussion, his crew jumped in and threatened me with a penalty. For what? I didn’t cuss. I didn’t threaten. I just told him he was wrong.

I’m fed up. They won’t be calling here again.

There are very, very few excuses for not knowing a rule.  You hit on one of them with being inexperienced.  There is no excuse for a veteran high school official to not know the rules.

Also, assuming there were no issues between the coaching staff and officials in the first half, there's no reason to not have a quick discussion and listen to what you said. 

I haven't worked high school football in many years so I don't keep up with NFHS rules, but I don't remember any rules where a player had to check in for any reason.  Is this a very old rule that may have been in the books before I started officiating or just something I've forgotten because I haven't focused on high school rules? 

Offline nomorewhining

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 11:29:15 am »
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 11:40:15 am by nomorewhining »

Offline blueandwhite

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 12:13:47 pm »
If you are a coach for Bauxite High School, this is post is totally unprofessional. Less than 3 hours after a game you are on a community message board complaining about the officials. What do you think you are accomplishing with this post? There is no good that come from this.

Offline Maynard G Krebs

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2020, 11:47:04 am »
Regardless the source of the comment, it points out a situation that unfortunately is becoming more common.  I understand it is difficult to recruit referees and many people don’t want to take on a job where they are routinely criticized or even berated.  That being said, for those that do take on the task, they owe it to themselves and the teams to know the rules.

In this circumstance, it appears the white hat got caught with his pants down and the only way he could get out of it was to pull rank and end any further discourse.

Offline RZback

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2020, 03:57:46 pm »
Regardless the source of the comment, it points out a situation that unfortunately is becoming more common.  I understand it is difficult to recruit referees and many people don’t want to take on a job where they are routinely criticized or even berated.  That being said, for those that do take on the task, they owe it to themselves and the teams to know the rules.

In this circumstance, it appears the white hat got caught with his pants down and the only way he could get out of it was to pull rank and end any further discourse.
Sounds like another unfortunate situation where the officials blew a call, then didn't want to deal with it so they "threaten" coaches.  The worst part is there is no recourse for addressing these problems.  Coaches can complain to the AAA but nothing really is done.  Learning the rules and proper implementation as well as having a professional demeanor is the responsibility of every official.  When officials get it grossly wrong you are messing with the coaches job and his career depends on wins and losses even in HS.  Give that some consideration when you put that whistle on.

Offline Fan1958

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2020, 11:57:32 am »
There are very, very few NO excuses for not knowing a rule.  You hit on one of them with being inexperienced.  There is no excuse for a veteran high school official to not know the rules.

Also, assuming there were no issues between the coaching staff and officials in the first half, there's no reason to not have a quick discussion and listen to what you said. 

I haven't worked high school football in many years so I don't keep up with NFHS rules, but I don't remember any rules where a player had to check in for any reason.  Is this a very old rule that may have been in the books before I started officiating or just something I've forgotten because I haven't focused on high school rules?

I umpired HS baseball for several years. Also worked lots of utrip. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not knowing the rules, yet I worked with many umpires in HS games who had no idea of the rules and no concept of the rotation and workings of a two person umpire crew. THEY WERE THERE SOLELY FOR THE MONEY and many made no bones about it. I have worked with guys who asked the coach, BEFORE THE GAME, for the paperwork in order to get paid. Talk about an embarrassment.

Things didn't work too well for the HS guys who tried to work utrip. USSSA baseball is a BUSINESS and if he/she didn't know the rules, was lazy and didn't hustle and had no idea where he/she was supposed to be on the field, the folks running the USSSA companies wouldn't use them.

Unfortunately, there is little to no oversight in the Arkansas HS officiating ranks, be it FB, BB or baseball. Sign up, pay the paltry fee and you too can officiate HS sports in Arkansas.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 09:37:39 pm by Fan1958 »

Offline arreferee

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2021, 10:50:50 am »
I umpired HS baseball for several years. Also worked lots of utrip. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not knowing the rules, yet I worked with many umpires in HS games who had no idea of the rules and no concept of the rotation and workings of a two person umpire crew. THEY WERE THERE SOLELY FOR THE MONEY and many made no bones about it. I have worked with guys who asked the coach, BEFORE THE GAME, for the paperwork in order to get paid. Talk about an embarrassment.

Things didn't work too well for the HS guys who tried to work utrip. USSSA baseball is a BUSINESS and if he/she didn't know the rules, was lazy and didn't hustle and had no idea where he/she was supposed to be on the field, the folks running the USSSA companies wouldn't use them.

Unfortunately, there is little to no oversight in the Arkansas HS officiating ranks, be it FB, BB or baseball. Sign up, pay the paltry fee and you too can officiate HS sports in Arkansas.

I'll stick to my statement of very, very few reasons to not know a rule.  For instance, we can't expect a first year referee to know all of the rules of the sport he is getting into.  If you expect that, you are doing that rookie referee a disservice.  I would dare say that even officials in the NFL or NBA don't always make a 100% on their tests.

Offline POWERCAT PRIDE

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 01:33:57 pm »
OK Fan1958, just for fun, let me diagram a play for you and see if you can make the correct call on the spot (note the numbers are jersey numbers). NO GOOGLING

Play #1......4th and 10 from K's (punting team) 35 yard line.  K10 punts the ball beyond the expanded neutral zone. It's a short kick and R5 (receiving team) gives a legit fair catch signal, but muffs the ball, which takes a hard bounce back toward K's neutral zone and ends up behind the neutral zone.  K10 quickly picks the ball up and slings it downfield to K88 racing down the sideline. R5 sees the ball in the air again and goes after it, but in the act levels K88. R5 catches the ball and returns it for an apparent TD. 

Play #2.....same scenario but R5 does not level K88 and K88 catches the ball and takes it to the house.

What's the ruling in each. Remember you have to decide quickly as you have screaming fans and coaches in your ear.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 01:35:58 pm by POWERCAT PRIDE »

Offline nomorewhining

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Re: Incompetent Refs/ unacceptable demeanor
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 12:37:33 pm »
I say it is K's ball at the spot where K10 recovered it, since you can't advance a muffed kick.

 


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