Author Topic: The Last Dance  (Read 579 times)

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Online Walter s

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The Last Dance
« on: May 06, 2020, 09:41:54 am »
This Jordan doc is interesting to me on many levels. Itís crazy to go back and see how much the game has changed. Jordan lived on the mid-range shot. He loved that fade-away baseline jumper. That shot hardly exists today. To get a glimpse of how these guys are behind closed doors is fun to watch. One thing I donít understand is how that dude was able to get up and down the court so fast as many dang cigars he smoked. He always had a cigar in his mouth lol

Offline dc24

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Re: The Last Dance
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 02:40:11 pm »
Very interesting to me and I'm not someone who worshiped or idolized Jordan like many of my friends and classmates. Matter of fact, I hated him for a while and the Bulls because they were so good. I was a huge SuperSonics fan and really got into the NBA in the mid-90's and I'm a huge baseball fan so the last two episodes were some of the most interesting to me along with the ones that concentrated on Pippen and Rodman a little more.

It's so interesting to think that people think Jordan could have been an MLB player. I believe it. People like to crap on him for trying it and how bad his numbers were, but he hadn't played in 14 years and had to start at AA! The fact he hit .202 is quite incredible. If there hadn't been a strike, history might have been totally different. I would love to see how that alternate universe played out.

As for the SuperSonics part, I was a kid during those finals and obviously didn't know much about the ins-and-outs of it. But crazy that Karl didn't let Gary Payton guard Jordan. I'm guessing his belief was that Jordan was going to get his, so we just are going to have to outscore him, but it changed the series once he did that. That Sonics team was very good and had he started out on Jordan it could have been a different series. I didn't appreciate Jordan laughing off what Payton said, but you can look at the stats. Jordan shot 10% worse in games 4-6 and scored about 8 or 9 points per game less. Numbers down across the board. I think I saw something that Jordan played 116 playoff games or thereabouts, and games 4 and 6 of those Finals were his 114th and 115th worse games. So yeah, Payton was really good and made a difference.

But yeah the whole thing has been fascinating. Like I said, I didn't like Jordan when I was a kid, so I honestly didn't keep up with him much as others did. So I'm learning a lot and gaining some respect for him. I had forgotten that his dad was murdered and didn't know almost anything about early Jordan years so I've enjoyed it. Makes me miss NBA basketball because I haven't paid nearly the attention to it that I used to when Seattle had a team.

Offline Maynard G Krebs

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Re: The Last Dance
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 06:42:55 am »
After watching the series, I still respect his talent and work ethic, but came away disliking him as person

Online Walter s

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Re: The Last Dance
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 09:18:12 am »
I grew up on the NBA of late 70ís and 80ís following teams like Sixers, Celtics, and Lakers. When Jordan came into the league I thought he was a selfish player. I understand, in the beginning he took all the shots because #1- he had to and #2- he could pull it off. This was before he had better players around him. But because of that I never really liked him. I think that was the beginning of isolation basketball, where everyone trying to ďbe like MikeĒ and do it all themselves. Kind of like when steph curry blew up you now have 7 yr olds shooting nothing but 3ís.

Anyway, wasnít a fan so didnít pay much attention to the bulls. I wanted so bad for Malone and Stockton and the Jazz to win one. Or the Knicks, Sonics, Pacers anyone else! So it was an interesting watch for me because at the time I wasnít paying attention.

What stood out to me is his drive to win. The man was going to win at all costs, no matter what. Winning is everything..the only thing. Sure, everyone is competitive but his will to win came across as a little more than the rest. He wanted it more.

I think Jordan is the best ever, donít get me wrong. But he getís put on this pedestal, rightfully so to some degree. But heís not winning 6 rings without those outstanding role players he had around him. Pippen especially, gets overlooked. Unfortunately thatís part of playing w the goat.

So I enjoyed the show. People are making a big deal about certain things, but to me I doubt what went on inside the locker room is no different than any other locker room in professional sports. Although my hats off to Phil Jackson for holding all that together, w all the egos....and Rodman lol

Offline dc24

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Re: The Last Dance
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2020, 11:37:27 am »
After watching the series, I still respect his talent and work ethic, but came away disliking him as person

I guess I didn't really care for him as a person myself, or I just didn't know as much about him. I think I actually gained a little bit of respect for him. Definitely some things about him that rubbed me the wrong way, for instance, when he just laughed off how Gary Payton guarding him made a difference. He seemed ok giving out some credit to other people, but he didn't want to with him. Maybe because it was how Payton said what he said, but still.

I think he showed what a win at all costs type of person is. I don't view most of what he did as different than what a lot of coaches do. Push people to the edge and see if they can gut it out or if they fold (aside from punching teammates, although I guess Bobby Knight would approve). The problem is that a lot of guys can take that from the coaches, but it really makes them angry when another player, another peer, does that to them. No matter how good Jordan was, and he was the best, you can't treat your peers that way and expect people to like you. But I think it was pretty clear in his playing career, he didn't care if his teammates liked him. Him reflecting on it, he didn't come out and say it, but I imagine he wishes he would have been a little less intense and maybe developed some more of those lifelong bonds you see with team sports. Maybe not, but I think the series did a decent job of displaying his high points as a person, but also low points.

I grew up on the NBA of late 70ís and 80ís following teams like Sixers, Celtics, and Lakers. When Jordan came into the league I thought he was a selfish player. I understand, in the beginning he took all the shots because #1- he had to and #2- he could pull it off. This was before he had better players around him. But because of that I never really liked him. I think that was the beginning of isolation basketball, where everyone trying to ďbe like MikeĒ and do it all themselves. Kind of like when steph curry blew up you now have 7 yr olds shooting nothing but 3ís.

Anyway, wasnít a fan so didnít pay much attention to the bulls. I wanted so bad for Malone and Stockton and the Jazz to win one. Or the Knicks, Sonics, Pacers anyone else! So it was an interesting watch for me because at the time I wasnít paying attention.

What stood out to me is his drive to win. The man was going to win at all costs, no matter what. Winning is everything..the only thing. Sure, everyone is competitive but his will to win came across as a little more than the rest. He wanted it more.

I think Jordan is the best ever, donít get me wrong. But he getís put on this pedestal, rightfully so to some degree. But heís not winning 6 rings without those outstanding role players he had around him. Pippen especially, gets overlooked. Unfortunately thatís part of playing w the goat.

So I enjoyed the show. People are making a big deal about certain things, but to me I doubt what went on inside the locker room is no different than any other locker room in professional sports. Although my hats off to Phil Jackson for holding all that together, w all the egos....and Rodman lol

I think people overlook Jordan's teammates for sure, and even Phil Jackson. The series was obviously mostly about Michael, but I would have loved to dive in more to Phil Jackson and then some of those other players too. I think if you take away Scottie or Horace Grant off those first three teams they probably don't win three in a row, maybe not one. Same thing for the last three with Scottie or Rodman. Heck if Seattle lets Payton guard Jordan right off the bat, Seattle may win those Finals, and I definitely think the second Bulls-Jazz finals, the Jazz were the better team, or every bit as good as Chicago.

I definitely think coaching in pro sports in general, but definitely the NBA, is about controlling egos 90% of the time. X's and O's after that, but your assistant coaches can focus more on that. I think it's a little harder in the NBA because you just don't see the roster shuffle like you do MLB and NFL, so you have your 12-15 guys and that's it. You're stuck with them.

I think it was a good thing for people to see though, especially people my age and younger. Or people like you who maybe didn't pay that much attention. I just didn't really become an NBA fan until that second three-peat by Chicago and I just didn't care for Jordan much when I was a kid so I was glad to see a deeper dive into it.

 

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