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Author Topic: Razorback soccer  (Read 3319 times)

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Offline Arkiesoccer

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Razorback soccer
« on: September 08, 2019, 09:40:08 pm »
I know it’s been mentioned several times on this board about the disinterest in AR soccer players from the current coaching staff - are they trying to prove a point with Caroline Campbell?  Team won something silly like 7-0, 26 players played including Campbell who logged only six minutes.  Only one other player was under 20 at 18 mins.  Just seems odd, makes it hard to really pull for an in state school with essentially no in state talent

Offline ArkansasSportsFan

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2019, 09:52:06 am »
I know it’s been mentioned several times on this board about the disinterest in AR soccer players from the current coaching staff - are they trying to prove a point with Caroline Campbell?  Team won something silly like 7-0, 26 players played including Campbell who logged only six minutes.  Only one other player was under 20 at 18 mins.  Just seems odd, makes it hard to really pull for an in state school with essentially no in state talent

Arkansas soccer just isn't at the same level as other states, and if you're an SEC school your job is to win. I think they've made the SEC finals the last two years so it's been working. If 26 players are getting playing time that's a lot of mouths to feed for a 90 minute game, and you obviously want to girls who are getting playing time during the games that count to get that game experience. Being nice and playing everyone is great but you have to get your girls game prepared.


Edit- Last 3 SEC Championships
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:09:41 am by ArkansasSportsFan »

Offline beach bum

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2019, 06:11:58 pm »
I know it’s been mentioned several times on this board about the disinterest in AR soccer players from the current coaching staff - are they trying to prove a point with Caroline Campbell?  Team won something silly like 7-0, 26 players played including Campbell who logged only six minutes.  Only one other player was under 20 at 18 mins.  Just seems odd, makes it hard to really pull for an in state school with essentially no in state talent

College coaches recruit the best players they can regardless of where they come from.... The coaches record speaks for itself. The program was mediocre at best before Coach Hale came here and now he gets them in the NCAA tourney yearly so I think he knows what he is doing. They play North Carolina on Sunday at home which would have never happened had he not came here to coach and he is obviously trying to build confidence with the top unit. North Carolina would have laughed at Arkansas 10 years ago had we asked them to play here. A 5-0 and 7-0 win speaks for itself as it seems the right people are playing. It is not a college coaches job to play a player just because. The attack for this team is loaded so what do you expect really? I guess I am not understanding your gripe? He recruits heavily in Tulsa and Texas which are close pipelines for us. Those Tulsa girls are unbelievable.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:13:49 pm by beach bum »

Offline HorseFeathers

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2019, 06:13:54 pm »
College coaches recruit the best players they can regardless of where they come from.... The coaches record speaks for itself. The program was mediocre at best before Coach Hale came here and now he gets them in the NCAA tourney yearly so I think he knows what he is doing. They play North Carolina on Sunday at home which would have never happened had he not came here to coacj and he is obviously trying to build confidence with the top unit. A 5-0 and 7-0 win speaks for itself as it seems the right people are playing. It is not a college coaches job to play a player just because. The attack for this team is loaded so what do you expect really? I guess I am not understanding your gripe? He recruits heavily in Tulsa and Texas which are close pipelines for us. Those Tulsa girls are unbelievable.

Hog fans aren't used to seeing one of their programs win

Offline beach bum

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 06:14:48 pm »
Hog fans aren't used to seeing one of their programs win

Lol exactly....

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 06:35:08 pm »
Hog fans aren't used to seeing one of their programs win

I mean, Fayetteville is the track and field capital of the world.

Offline beach bum

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 07:03:01 pm »
I mean, Fayetteville is the track and field capital of the world.

The men's coach is trying his very best to ruin the once prestigious program... And he gets the reputation as a horse's rear to boot if you know what I mean. He is not very easy to deal with.


The women's coach on the other hand is as humble and nice of a guy as you will meet... And he is winning lots of trophies right now too. Our women's programs are looking strong in general. I like the trajectory of the basketball program too for the women.

Offline Arkiesoccer

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 01:53:08 pm »
Disclaimer that I don’t have a dog in the fight – it was more of an observation than anything, and fully understand the lack of soccer talent in the state.  With that said, there are a couple of high D1 signees every year which are probably anomalies more than anything (do think a senior from Cabot is committed to UA).
 
A quick look at the roster shows where the emphasis on recruiting is, and that is of course each coach’s prerogative.  His approach seems to be to recruit athletes that will excel in one or two areas and then plug and play.
 
Agree completely that he is doing a good job of bringing in talent to compete in the SEC, style of play may not be suitable to competing nationally, yet I wouldn’t think the coaching staff would be taking charity cases just b/c a player is from Arkansas – point being that he recruited her the same as he recruited Goins as they came in at the same time.  Once they get on campus a different story unfolds.
 
The intent of the post (not so much a gripe) was to address how much fine tuning can be had with games against SEMO, McNeese St, and Lamar where they outscored the opponents 19-0 and had 78 shots vs 7 total (on goal was 44-1).  So if you are 3rd or 4th or 6th down the depth chart, one would think this is the only time those kids would get an opportunity to see the field – hence 26 and 25 players getting game time which is just unreal at the college level.
 
Maybe it’s simply that she is 25th on the depth chart out of the 25 field players on the roster – but yes – a casual observer would think that is when you “give” that home state player extra time as the outcome has already been determined and playing your top 16-18 would not be beneficial - same scenario as when the hog basketball team is up by 40 and the walk-on that doesn’t even have a name on his jersey gets minutes.
 
And I believe UA is paying the expenses for UNC to come here and play

Offline HorseFeathers

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 01:59:02 pm »
I mean, Fayetteville is the track and field capital of the world.

It and baseball are anamolies

Offline beach bum

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2019, 01:57:46 pm »
I'm at the match today and we are up 2-0 over #1 North Carolina.. What a good atmosphere. We got 10 minutes to hold on to the upset. Our ladies are great at home over the last 5 years.

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 09:30:35 pm »
And I believe UA is paying the expenses for UNC to come here and play

UNC wanted the game against Uark because of RPI. Uark does well in its conference. Had they beat Arkansas it would have been good for seeding UNC in post season. They did not pay them to come and play. Thats not how college soccer works. There is not enough money for that kind of thing to happen.

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 09:35:48 pm »
Agree completely that he is doing a good job of bringing in talent to compete in the SEC, style of play may not be suitable to competing nationally,

Hmmm.... Looks like that style of play is doing ok on the national level.... Currently Ranked 6th.... Nationally.

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 10:24:21 pm »
I think that it is time to end the narrative of "coach Hale does not recruit in Arkansas". This hogwash is only being promoted by the clubs in the state because they know they cannot tempt the parents of club players with the possibility of their daughters playing at the big school in the state.

Please have a look at the rosters of the other four D1 schools in Arkansas and tell me where those schools are recruiting from? (ive included them below) How come you are not critiquing these other coaches for their rosters and the playing time they are giving to Arkansas players? UALR won their conference championship last year and made it into the NCAA tournament, guess how many players from Arkansas he has on his roster? Zero. When they played the first round tournament game at Arkansas gues which team fielded more players from Arkansas that night?

UCA has the most Arkansas players of any D1 soccer program in the state. A grand total of 4.... of 26. Of the four only one of them has significant minutes.

And here is the really fun part... Guess where current Razorback super star Anna Podijill grew up? Bentonville Arkansas. Her family left Arkansas and went to Cincinnati where she got good enough to play. Here is a quote from a recent article:

"Podojil is among the most heralded recruits Hale has swayed to Arkansas, although she said she didn’t need much convincing. She and her younger sister Ellie, who is also committed to play soccer for the Razorbacks, attended Arkansas’ home games while growing up in Bentonville."

http://www.astateredwolves.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7200&SPID=2748&SPSID=35082

https://uapblionsroar.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

https://lrtrojans.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

https://ucasports.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

Offline Brownclown

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 09:28:21 pm »
I think that it is time to end the narrative of "coach Hale does not recruit in Arkansas". This hogwash is only being promoted by the clubs in the state because they know they cannot tempt the parents of club players with the possibility of their daughters playing at the big school in the state.

Please have a look at the rosters of the other four D1 schools in Arkansas and tell me where those schools are recruiting from? (ive included them below) How come you are not critiquing these other coaches for their rosters and the playing time they are giving to Arkansas players? UALR won their conference championship last year and made it into the NCAA tournament, guess how many players from Arkansas he has on his roster? Zero. When they played the first round tournament game at Arkansas gues which team fielded more players from Arkansas that night?

UCA has the most Arkansas players of any D1 soccer program in the state. A grand total of 4.... of 26. Of the four only one of them has significant minutes.

And here is the really fun part... Guess where current Razorback super star Anna Podijill grew up? Bentonville Arkansas. Her family left Arkansas and went to Cincinnati where she got good enough to play. Here is a quote from a recent article:

"Podojil is among the most heralded recruits Hale has swayed to Arkansas, although she said she didn’t need much convincing. She and her younger sister Ellie, who is also committed to play soccer for the Razorbacks, attended Arkansas’ home games while growing up in Bentonville."

http://www.astateredwolves.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7200&SPID=2748&SPSID=35082

https://uapblionsroar.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

https://lrtrojans.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

https://ucasports.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

The coach from UALR would love to have more in state girls, but his problem is not many girls are interested in UALR and then even keeping them on campus.  UAPB, well...it's not a very good school academically.

On the boy's side, the coaches go get foreign players from pro academies that aren't good enough to sign with their club or even get loaned out.  Their country pays for them to get a degree here and sends them with $10K in their pocket.  UCA has 13 foreign players on their roster.  Some are ok and some are...meh...

My understanding is D2 limits foreign players, NAIA has an age limit now and many D3 schools are too academically rigorous and expensive for foreign players.

Most D1 soccer is 1978 kick and chase from what I've seen.  It's all bigger, faster, stronger kids.  D3 is actually fun to watch because those are the technical players. 

Offline gmac1628

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 08:00:24 am »
"Podojil is among the most heralded recruits Hale has swayed to Arkansas, although she said she didn’t need much convincing. She and her younger sister Ellie, who is also committed to play soccer for the Razorbacks, attended Arkansas’ home games while growing up in Bentonville."

It should also be pointed out that she and her sister are track athletes.  Their parents both ran in college.  Not to take anything from our soccer recruiting but the success of our track program helped in getting these 2 players to Arkansas.

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 01:35:55 pm »
Most D1 soccer is 1978 kick and chase from what I've seen.  It's all bigger, faster, stronger kids.  D3 is actually fun to watch because those are the technical players.

I think that the more lenient substitution rules shape the college game, essentially you have unlimited subs as each player can be subbed off and on once in a half. You can afford to play a faster more direct style of play because you can bring fresh legs on more easily. Even Anson Dorance has adapted to the modern college game by playing a more direct style with a high press. The 600 pass games are few and far between. Now the more important statistic is "Key Passes". If college teams were restricted to 3 subs a game I think the play style would change significantly.... And so would the rosters sizes... Why have 30 on a roster when only 14 will play.

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 01:42:10 pm »
It should also be pointed out that she and her sister are track athletes.  Their parents both ran in college.  Not to take anything from our soccer recruiting but the success of our track program helped in getting these 2 players to Arkansas.

No doubt it helped.... But they are coming to play soccer. Podigil earned Freshman of the year in the SEC. And may end up with the same award for the NCAA. No doubt she has played a massive part in the current 6th in the country ranking....  I am still laughing about an earlier quote on this thread:

Agree completely that he is doing a good job of bringing in talent to compete in the SEC, style of play may not be suitable to competing nationally, .......
 
And I believe UA is paying the expenses for UNC to come here and play

Offline soccerman

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2019, 12:16:34 pm »
Lady Razorbacks get a big in-state signing as Mackenzie Fredrick from Robinson signs with the UofA.

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2019, 01:53:51 pm »
And Kiley Dulaney....

Both from Arkansas!

Offline Buck183

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2019, 12:17:23 pm »
I think that it is time to end the narrative of "coach Hale does not recruit in Arkansas". This hogwash is only being promoted by the clubs in the state because they know they cannot tempt the parents of club players with the possibility of their daughters playing at the big school in the state.

Please have a look at the rosters of the other four D1 schools in Arkansas and tell me where those schools are recruiting from? (ive included them below) How come you are not critiquing these other coaches for their rosters and the playing time they are giving to Arkansas players? UALR won their conference championship last year and made it into the NCAA tournament, guess how many players from Arkansas he has on his roster? Zero. When they played the first round tournament game at Arkansas gues which team fielded more players from Arkansas that night?

UCA has the most Arkansas players of any D1 soccer program in the state. A grand total of 4.... of 26. Of the four only one of them has significant minutes.

And here is the really fun part... Guess where current Razorback super star Anna Podijill grew up? Bentonville Arkansas. Her family left Arkansas and went to Cincinnati where she got good enough to play. Here is a quote from a recent article:

"Podojil is among the most heralded recruits Hale has swayed to Arkansas, although she said she didn’t need much convincing. She and her younger sister Ellie, who is also committed to play soccer for the Razorbacks, attended Arkansas’ home games while growing up in Bentonville."

http://www.astateredwolves.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7200&SPID=2748&SPSID=35082

https://uapblionsroar.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

https://lrtrojans.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

https://ucasports.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

Ok.  What about out of state schools that have Arkansas players?  How are these players doing at other schools that recruited them to move out of state?  That would be a better representation given that Coach Hale is letting them go elsewhere. 

We can't compare an in state school that has four native Arkansas players to what has left the state.  The better players tend to leave the state rather than stay here anyway. 

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2019, 01:08:04 pm »
Sure you can... Even Arkansas schools are not recruiting Arkansas players. That is the main point I am trying to make.

Who are these better players? Are they playing in one of the power five conferences? Are they still getting good playing time? Are these teams ranked within the top 50 in our country?

Skylur Patrick and Elise Reina are the only two I can think of. They are both players that were missed for sure. It seems that KU has benefited from Reina. Purdue did not make it into the NCAA tournament.

Coach Hale has done what nobody ever imagined... 6th in the country? Beating UNC? This would have never happened by recruiting players from Arkansas.

Offline HorseFeathers

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2019, 06:32:36 pm »
Sure you can... Even Arkansas schools are not recruiting Arkansas players. That is the main point I am trying to make.

Who are these better players? Are they playing in one of the power five conferences? Are they still getting good playing time? Are these teams ranked within the top 50 in our country?

Skylur Patrick and Elise Reina are the only two I can think of. They are both players that were missed for sure. It seems that KU has benefited from Reina. Purdue did not make it into the NCAA tournament.

Coach Hale has done what nobody ever imagined... 6th in the country? Beating UNC? This would have never happened by recruiting players from Arkansas.

Would think he's doing something right....

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2019, 08:50:25 am »
I'm going to wade back into the waters for a few minutes after reading this discussion and offer a few takes.

First and foremost, congratulations to Arkansas Razorback soccer for the season they are enjoying to date.  This is definitely a high level of achievement for the program and should be enjoyed to the fullest. 

Historically, there have been D1 quality/level players from Arkansas.  They problem (as we all know all too well) is they do not have the quality of training and competition available to them players in the larger areas do. Coaches are simply not going to bother recruiting areas with so many question marks when there are many more fertile grounds they can recruit.  That is understandable as coaches have limited budgets and time for recruiting. 

Concurrently, for too many coaches mentally eliminate players from Arkansas without ever even giving them an opportunity for the same reasons mentioned above. To be clear, I can't entirely fault the coach for this but I have seen this closed minded-ness play out in other ways as well (example: when a coaching change occurs in a program). 

The sad reality is this - if you have a soccer player who might have the drive, desire and ability to be a D1 player one day, you need to leave Arkansas as soon as possible so that player can participate in better youth programs.  But you also need to leave Arkansas because there is a lazy minded stereotype in the minds of too many coaches that eliminates any player from Arkansas simply because they are from Arkansas.  That will probably never change. 

And let's also not forget that playing soccer in college almost never carries a meaningful scholarship for any player (especially males) since the sport is so poorly funded and fractionalized awards are allowed. 

I know almost all of us who venture into this forum are aware of these points, but every now and then a reminder of them might help someone who is in the situation of trying to decide what to do to help a promising soccer player develop. 

Offline stronguard

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 11:31:41 am »
I'm going to chime in here as well.  The talent level in Arkansas girls soccer has been laggng behind surrounding states for most of my daughters playing career.  But the times are a changing.  A couple of years ago the AR Rush team that had both Mackenzie and Kiley up front and my daughter as the goalie went down to Orlando and finished 2nd in the nation.  That team had some serious talent, top to bottom. Unfortuantely, club politics forced that team to split into 2 and now those 2 teams have some outstanding matches every time the take the pitch.  When we go to surrounding states it used to be a tall task to come away with wins, but we regularly win matches and even tournaments now in places like Memphis, St Louis, KC, Tulsa, Orlando, Dallas etc etc.

Now don't get me wrong, Arkansas doesn't have the numbers that the other states do because of the population disparity, but the talent gap has closed signifigantly over the last 6-8 years. 

Offline Buck183

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2019, 04:01:56 pm »
Sure you can... Even Arkansas schools are not recruiting Arkansas players. That is the main point I am trying to make.

Who are these better players? Are they playing in one of the power five conferences? Are they still getting good playing time? Are these teams ranked within the top 50 in our country?

Skylur Patrick and Elise Reina are the only two I can think of. They are both players that were missed for sure. It seems that KU has benefited from Reina. Purdue did not make it into the NCAA tournament.

Coach Hale has done what nobody ever imagined... 6th in the country? Beating UNC? This would have never happened by recruiting players from Arkansas.

Skylurr's graduating class would be a perfect example.  That class may have been one of the best classes we've had come out of the state.  There are plenty of names from that class that would be worth following. 

And yes, more than just the two names you mentioned went to power five schools. 

Offline beeroe

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2019, 06:07:12 pm »
And yes, more than just the two names you mentioned went to power five schools.

Who are they... Are they playing for teams that beat UNC? Or teams that are ranked in the 10 ten nationally?

Maybe thats harsh. But we all know the reality of coaching is that the job comes down to wins and losses. Ive been hearing this narrative for a while now and it is getting old. Honestly do you think the program would be where it currently is if Hale had focused on recruiting Arkansas players?

Here is a funny plot twist... Take a look at this tweet. Two girls who grew up playing soccer in Bentonville.... Left the state and got properly coached, then came back to play at Arkansas. Hmmmmm https://twitter.com/RazorbackSoccer/status/1192919411155505152
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 06:19:16 pm by beeroe »

Offline Buck183

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2019, 11:11:40 pm »
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 05:05:11 am by Buck183 »

Offline Brownclown

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2019, 03:23:45 pm »
Hit the nail on the head.

I'm going to wade back into the waters for a few minutes after reading this discussion and offer a few takes.

First and foremost, congratulations to Arkansas Razorback soccer for the season they are enjoying to date.  This is definitely a high level of achievement for the program and should be enjoyed to the fullest. 

Historically, there have been D1 quality/level players from Arkansas.  They problem (as we all know all too well) is they do not have the quality of training and competition available to them players in the larger areas do. Coaches are simply not going to bother recruiting areas with so many question marks when there are many more fertile grounds they can recruit.  That is understandable as coaches have limited budgets and time for recruiting. 

Concurrently, for too many coaches mentally eliminate players from Arkansas without ever even giving them an opportunity for the same reasons mentioned above. To be clear, I can't entirely fault the coach for this but I have seen this closed minded-ness play out in other ways as well (example: when a coaching change occurs in a program). 

The sad reality is this - if you have a soccer player who might have the drive, desire and ability to be a D1 player one day, you need to leave Arkansas as soon as possible so that player can participate in better youth programs.  But you also need to leave Arkansas because there is a lazy minded stereotype in the minds of too many coaches that eliminates any player from Arkansas simply because they are from Arkansas.  That will probably never change. 

And let's also not forget that playing soccer in college almost never carries a meaningful scholarship for any player (especially males) since the sport is so poorly funded and fractionalized awards are allowed. 

I know almost all of us who venture into this forum are aware of these points, but every now and then a reminder of them might help someone who is in the situation of trying to decide what to do to help a promising soccer player develop.

Offline Brownclown

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Re: Razorback soccer
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2019, 03:29:47 pm »
I'm going to chime in here as well.  The talent level in Arkansas girls soccer has been laggng behind surrounding states for most of my daughters playing career.  But the times are a changing.  A couple of years ago the AR Rush team that had both Mackenzie and Kiley up front and my daughter as the goalie went down to Orlando and finished 2nd in the nation.  That team had some serious talent, top to bottom. Unfortuantely, club politics forced that team to split into 2 and now those 2 teams have some outstanding matches every time the take the pitch.  When we go to surrounding states it used to be a tall task to come away with wins, but we regularly win matches and even tournaments now in places like Memphis, St Louis, KC, Tulsa, Orlando, Dallas etc etc.

Now don't get me wrong, Arkansas doesn't have the numbers that the other states do because of the population disparity, but the talent gap has closed signifigantly over the last 6-8 years.

It also doesn't help when narcissistic parents that think they know better, want to dictate roster, game day lineup, and sit on the team bench start new clubs because little Johnny or Suzi isn't the star of the team.  It's a problem in both the central part of the state as well as the northwest.  It's watered down the thin talent that we have and makes it that much more difficult to compete regionally.

 

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