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Author Topic: Ask the soccer referees....  (Read 4396 times)

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Offline sevenof400

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Ask the soccer referees....
« on: March 16, 2019, 05:46:05 pm »
...questions here.

As a note: there are a few of those who practice the dark arts (ha!) around here......ask away if so inclined!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 03:33:31 pm by sevenof400 »

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 09:19:39 pm »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?


Offline WillC

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 02:42:06 am »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?
As far as the rules go I don't care, but I think it looks funny.

Offline sssuperpantherfan2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2019, 08:34:20 am »
Can you pick the ball up and move it after you set it on the line for a goal kick?

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2019, 08:47:23 am »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?

The rules state:
Quote
.....ART. 2 . . . It is recommended that team captains wear an upper arm band of a contrasting color. The captainís band, if worn, shall be worn on the upper arm....

I'm looking for a way to tactfully say this ..... where a captain wears an armband is not high on my list of considerations..

Is it a rule?  Yes. 
Is it meaningful to the game? No.
It would make more sense to require captains to wear armbands if you are going to be concerned about where the armband is worn.

Offline Lionheart88

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 08:55:33 am »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?


I donít, though I think technically theyíre supposed to.  I did see a guy the other day make some kids move them.  I think thatís silly.

Can you pick the ball up and move it after you set it on the line for a goal kick?
Technically, I donít think so.  In practice, you probably can unless the ref thinks youíre time wasting.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2019, 08:58:47 am »
Can you pick the ball up and move it after you set it on the line for a goal kick?

If the placement / replacement of the ball is suggesting time wasting, it becomes an issue then.     

If a player places the ball, then picks it up and moves to the other side of the area, it becomes an issue then.

We play on too many fields where the goal area is in such poor shape that I'll give some benefit of the doubt to a player putting the ball down for a goal kick looking for a decently level place.

In the end, this becomes one of those 'in the opinion of the referee' considerations....

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 10:00:41 am »
Does the player taking the free kick have to ask for ten yards, or is it the responsibility of the opposing players to give ten yards?

I've seen some referees not give ten because it wasn't asked, others mark off ten yards immediately (as in, before there is time for the kicking player to ask), and even others ask players if they want ten before marking it off.

Offline futbolsoccer

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2019, 10:29:51 am »
1. Off sides, need to understand that is call when the pass is made not when player get the ball, and in a cross,  as long as the player is behind the ball line ihe/she is on
side, if players on the left side of the field is off but pass is made to right side with layed on side, play still on, players on left side is not interrupting the play or involved in it, have seen many ar's raising flag on this plays.

2. Direct or indirect kick, in one game the ref called an INDIRECT free kick, because he have his arm up, but player took a direct kick and score, guess what?
It counted!

Offline chaoslord

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2019, 10:36:30 am »
Does the player taking the free kick have to ask for ten yards, or is it the responsibility of the opposing players to give ten yards?

I've seen some referees not give ten because it wasn't asked, others mark off ten yards immediately (as in, before there is time for the kicking player to ask), and even others ask players if they want ten before marking it off.

It is the responsibility of the defending players to give 10 yards.

This is one of the trickeier areas of managing the game. The defense has a right to not be fooled by the referee on restarts so a lot of refs are shy about doing anything at all unless the offense asks for it. And like, if the defender is 8 yards instead of 10 on a free kick in the defensive third, is that a big deal? To some teams yes, to other teams they donít care at all.

My general approach:
*If itís in the attacking third, if the attacking team isnít clearly looking to go quick, Iím gonna make it ceremonial. Iíve seen exactly one quick free kick taken from within ~25 yards of goal in the last 10 years, itís just gonna waste more time to wait for the attacking team to eventually ask. If thereís a foul in that area Iím gonna be arriving on the scene quickly so if there hasnít been a lot of movement by the time I get there, odds are someoneís gonna be asking for 10. Most of the time Iím getting asked ďcan we have 10 ref?Ē the moment I get there.
*In the middle third, a flyby ďhey 7, thatís not 10 yards, cmonĒ seems to work well enough. I try to be proactive about it there and I feel like a quiet comment to one player isnít enough to disadvantage the defense so I donít need to whistle it.
*In the defending third, Iíve moved upfield already so if thereís any complaints about 10 Iím eithwr having my AR take it or just yelling back for the player to back up 3 steps. Good enough.

The hardest bit is if an attacker chooses to go quick, there are some situations where a defender less than 10 yards away can legally intercept the ball. So thatís always fun to deal with.

Offline Sir Alex

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2019, 11:01:20 pm »
Technically, a player not 10 yards who blocks the ball played should be issued a yellow card and the freekick is retaken.  The officials job was made easier when this rule was updated by NFHS.

I wish as much leniency was given on corners as given on goal kicks. 


Offline chandler

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 10:03:31 am »
How much time does a player get to make a throw in in the last couple minutes of a match? And can they decide to let a teammate take the throw in after already taking time off the clock. This is in regard to a player taking ten seconds (his team was up by one goal) only to decide to let another teammate make the throw in and that player also taking 10 seconds. Overall the clock went from :50 to less than :30 by the time the throw was made. What can a Ref do if he/she sees this unfolding?

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 02:29:38 pm »
Chaoslord's points above are good points all around. One of the largest issues faced in the referee community is one of continuity.  In other words, how can we get as many referees to be as consistent as possible in their application of the laws of the game.

Now add this consideration - the quality of play can vary widely in HS soccer.  How one calls a game will be impacted by the quality of the contestants.  This gets back to Chaoslords point earlier on how to deal with restarts.

While the LOTG are few (17 in all) it is their application of their laws that introduces such a wide level of interpretation.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 02:36:05 pm »
To Chandler's point:
This should fall under the category of time wasting and the referee can take action (for example, issuing yellow cards for time wasting). 

But I will add this thought - there should be similar emphasis on this throughout the entirety of the match. 

If a match is out of hand early on (with say one team controlling the play), I'm going to place more emphasis on watching the leading team for time wasting than the trailing team. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 02:40:10 pm by sevenof400 »

Offline Sir Alex

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2019, 04:59:48 pm »
To Chandler's point:
This should fall under the category of time wasting and the referee can take action (for example, issuing yellow cards for time wasting). 

But I will add this thought - there should be similar emphasis on this throughout the entirety of the match. 

If a match is out of hand early on (with say one team controlling the play), I'm going to place more emphasis on watching the leading team for time wasting than the trailing team.

Gamesmanship

Offline sssuperpantherfan2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2019, 07:21:00 pm »
Iíve seen some teams do nonstop subbing thru the entire match to stall a better team. It could be time wasting also.

Offline futbolsoccer

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2019, 07:22:35 pm »
I wish refs can add time for stuff like that, and fairplay.

Offline chaoslord

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2019, 07:50:41 pm »
You could poll 20 referees and get a wide variety of answers on how long they are willing to let time go to take a throw in, but I Hope most if not all refs would recognize when that hand off to a second player after a long wait happens itís delaying the restart and should be dealt with with a stopped clock and a yellow card.

Rule change for next year will stop the clock when the team in the lead subs in the last 5 minutes of the game, hopefully that will cut some shenanigans out.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2019, 09:25:17 pm »
With respect to the rule change for next year on stopping the clock, there should also be some emphasis on the running of the clock responsibilities.  I have seen a good number of clock operators this year who simply do not pay attention.  This rule change will likely mean more situations where the referee keeps the official time on the field and the stadium clock becomes a distraction.

I like the intent of the rule change but like some rule changes before this one, it probably will cause more issues than it solves.

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2019, 08:08:19 am »
You could poll 20 referees and get a wide variety of answers on how long they are willing to let time go to take a throw in, but I Hope most if not all refs would recognize when that hand off to a second player after a long wait happens itís delaying the restart and should be dealt with with a stopped clock and a yellow card.

Rule change for next year will stop the clock when the team in the lead subs in the last 5 minutes of the game, hopefully that will cut some shenanigans out.

This will be used sparingly, right? Why stop the clock when a team is up multiple goals (as in, no way for the losing team to make a comeback) and wants to get their subs in? I understand in a close match, but in a blow out keep the clock moving.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2019, 08:23:00 am »
It is the responsibility of the defending players to give 10 yards.

This is one of the trickeier areas of managing the game........

The hardest bit is if an attacker chooses to go quick, there are some situations where a defender less than 10 yards away can legally intercept the ball. So thatís always fun to deal with.

Technically, a player not 10 yards who blocks the ball played should be issued a yellow card and the freekick is retaken.  The officials job was made easier when this rule was updated by NFHS.

I wish as much leniency was given on corners as given on goal kicks. 

As Chaoslord noted, this can be tricky!

It is was noting that a defensive player who commits a foul has to be given a reasonable amount of time to withdraw (move away).  While in the process of moving away, if that defender chooses to act / react to a quick restart, then a whole new set of considerations emerge.

But without beating that into the ground, what I dislike immensely is OTHER defenders - those who were NOT involved in the play / foul immediately prior to the call moving into the 10 yard zone for no other reason than to slow down / disrupt the restart.  As Sir Alex notes, that does need to be stopped and potentially carded.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 08:24:42 am by sevenof400 »

Offline Ranger20

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 08:42:34 am »
My son was playing in a U18 Rec tournament final a few years ago and, for some reason, we had a ref with experience from a few levels higher. The first time one our boys stood right in front of the ball so our defense could get set, this ref gave him a yellow card. The boy complained to the ref he shouldíve gotten a warning first, to which the ref replied simply, ďyou know the rule.Ē Habits being what they are, another boy did the same and got the same yellow card response. Personally, I have no problem with holding players accountable for rules they were or shouldíve been taught already. But, of course, it has to be consistently applied.

Offline soccerfan3

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 01:34:06 pm »
Why isn't there some type of physical fitness requirement for high school referees?  I have seen many bad or missed off-sides calls because the AR was not able to run fast enough down the sideline to be able to make the call. 

Offline Sir Alex

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2019, 02:00:13 pm »
Why isn't there some type of physical fitness requirement for high school referees?  I have seen many bad or missed off-sides calls because the AR was not able to run fast enough down the sideline to be able to make the call.

The pool of officials would be cut in half if that happened. 

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2019, 02:23:56 pm »
Why isn't there some type of physical fitness requirement for high school referees?  I have seen many bad or missed off-sides calls because the AR was not able to run fast enough down the sideline to be able to make the call.

And yes, I resemble this remark!   

Soccerfan3,

Trust me when I get where you're coming from on this.  As an older (more experienced...) referee, the fact of the matter is I am trying to keep up with players who may be 1/3 my age and weight.....  One of the reasons I got back into refereeing this year was because the pool of referees is so small the fact is I am NOT taking someone's spot (i.e. I am NOT pushing another referee out from having the opportunity to call matches). 

Can I keep up with a boys game at top speed?  Certainly not over an 80 minute game if the game is moving at a good clip throughout the entirety of the game.  Is that fair to the players?  Certainly not. 

But the question becomes what happens if a game does NOT have a full set of referees. 

Trust me I am NOT writing this while mad but trying to show you why some of us who (in a perfect world) should NOT be refereeing some of these high school games are. 
 

Offline Go Postal

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2019, 10:03:13 am »
Here is a couple of things that I've seen over the years that have happened and might need clarification from someone.

1.  I've seen boys and girls games where they have thrown in the ball so hard from the sideline that it actually went in the goal and counted.  (This could also happen if the wind is in your favor or someone is doing the forward flip throw in.) Is this okay according to the rules?

2.  You might want to explain also when a goalie can NOT use his hands for the new posters on here.

3.  Explain how the two man referees system works, when there is not a third official available.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2019, 10:48:23 am »
I wondered when you'd be back around these parts, Posty!  Hope all is well in H-town!

Here is a couple of things that I've seen over the years that have happened and might need clarification from someone.

1.  I've seen boys and girls games where they have thrown in the ball so hard from the sideline that it actually went in the goal and counted.  (This could also happen if the wind is in your favor or someone is doing the forward flip throw in.) Is this okay according to the rules?

If this happened as described and the goal was counted, the referee (and crew) just made a grievous error.

By law, a player in the field of play must touch the ball after a throw in occurs before the ball enters the goal.  And it also follows that by law, the player taking the thrown in is temporarily off the field of play (with implied permission though).
 
If a throw in is taken, and ends up in the the goal, the restart is either a goal kick (if the ball enters the opponents goal) or a corner kick (if the ball enters your own goal). 

As an aside, this post got me thinking about a procedural change.
When an indirect kick is taken, the CR will hold one arm up to indicate the free kick is indirect.  This is a way to show the ball must be touched by another player on the field of play before a goal can be scored.
This almost makes me think I would not be the worst idea to do this on a thrown in EXCEPT for the fact that in games with lots of throw ins, we'd be running around with arms in the air a lot......

Quote
2.  You might want to explain also when a goalie can NOT use his hands for the new posters on here.

Let's take the easiest part first - when a keeper leaves the penalty area, they are like any other player on the field and they cannot use their hands.  It is not often you see this in HS soccer but later in games (when a team is trailing) and a team gets a corner kick, some teams will add the keeper to the attack since keepers are frequently one of the more athletic players on a team and can jump.

It looks odd when a keeper vs keeper situation occurs on a free kick, but remember the keeper who is out of their own area is the same as any other field player (same rights and privileges).

In their own area, a keeper can use their hands ANYTIME - EXCEPT when a teammate deliberately passes the keeper the ball (with one exception).
In that case, a keeper MAY NOT legally pick up the ball.
Violations of this law result in an INDIRECT kick.  And boy can that get fun!

The exception is this - if a teammate plays their keeper the ball using their head, the keeper CAN pick this ball up.
Where you usually see this is on a punt.  One keeper blasts the ball down the field, and an opposing defender heads the ball back to their keeper.  This ball CAN BE picked up by the keeper.

It should also be noted a player cannot resort to trickery to circumvent this rule.  This means a player (usually a defender) CANNOT deliberately receive a ball with their feet, juggle the ball (as part of an attempt to elevate it), and then head the ball to their own keeper as part of an attempt to allow the keeper to pick up the ball within their own area. 

Quote
3.  Explain how the two man referees system works, when there is not a third official available.

Let me offer this for those who would really like to read more
http://ocsoccerofficials.com/files/94064763.pdf
That PDF may be a bit dated, but on a quick read of it this PDF still seems to be reasonably current.
The best resource in this PDF are the field diagrams that also have the 'indicated' areas of responsibility for each referee. 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 10:53:36 am by sevenof400 »

Offline WillC

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2019, 05:22:50 pm »


The exception is this - if a teammate plays their keeper the ball using their head, the keeper CAN pick this ball up.

Slight edit: This exception applies to every body part except the foot. So if a player deliberately chest traps a ball to his goalkeeper, he can use his hands.

Offline Sir Alex

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2019, 09:13:35 pm »
Slight edit: This exception applies to every body part except the foot. So if a player deliberately chest traps a ball to his goalkeeper, he can use his hands.

Actually any body part above the waiste that can legally play the ball can be picked up by the keeper As long as it was not intentionally played with your lower body to the upper body back to the keeper.

Offline WillC

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2019, 02:48:42 am »
Actually any body part above the waiste that can legally play the ball can be picked up by the keeper As long as it was not intentionally played with your lower body to the upper body back to the keeper.
I feel like that's a definitional issue. The book only mentions "kicking" and makes no reference to upper or lower body.

I know that FIFA has officially defined "kicked" as only occurring with the foot (meaning the GK can pick up knee and thigh passes). I'm comfortable with applying that to NFHS, since they provided no further explanation.

Offline Lionheart88

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2019, 07:18:13 pm »
Any part of the arm is considered a handball.  I feel like Iíve seen refs apply the same basic standard to a kick, ie any part of the leg is a ďkickĒ.  Iíd want to consult some of my reffing mentors before I came down on either side, though.

Offline WillC

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2019, 02:58:23 pm »
Any part of the arm is considered a handball.  I feel like Iíve seen refs apply the same basic standard to a kick, ie any part of the leg is a ďkickĒ.  Iíd want to consult some of my reffing mentors before I came down on either side, though.
IFAB defines "kick" as "when a player makes contact with the foot and/or the ankle," so for FIFA sanctioned matches, goalkeepers can pick up anything but foot/ankle passes. I can't seem to find anything for NFHS.

Offline Go Postal

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2019, 10:12:28 pm »
What would be the ruling on this scenario?
Opposing team makes a kick to the goal, the defender attempts to kick the ball away from the goal but the ball is just deflected and will still go in to the goal.  It's a high ball and the keeper only can use his hands to stop the goal.
Penalty or goal?

Offline Arkiesoccer

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2019, 10:40:02 pm »
What would be the ruling on this scenario?
Opposing team makes a kick to the goal, the defender attempts to kick the ball away from the goal but the ball is just deflected and will still go in to the goal.  It's a high ball and the keeper only can use his hands to stop the goal.
Penalty or goal?

Although Iím not a ref, the key word in your example is ďdeflectedĒ, since it was not an intentional pass back, keeper can use their hands and play continues.

Below is a link to a document called ď Laws of the game made easyĒ - although it hasnít been updated (the biggest change is the direction a ball can go on a kickoff) we provide this to all new to soccer parents and have had good feedback on it

http://www.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Referees/LawsoftheGameMadeEasy.pdf

Offline chaoslord

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2019, 08:38:24 am »
Arkiesoccer got it. 12-7-3 requires a deliberate kick to the goalkeeper. This is where the argument about what constitutes a "deliberate kick" begins. If a player has time to wind up in space without being challenged but shanks the kick, is that a deliberate kick? Does the word "deliberate" refer to the action or the result? All that fun stuff. As described, I'm not calling a passback. It's clearly not "to" the goalkeeper, it's an attempted clearance.

Here's a fun game: IF you, as the referee, decide to call this though.... what's the restart? I can't find spoiler tags so I'll just put a few spaces here.




(Indirect Free Kick. Goalkeeper illegally handling in their own penalty area is always an IFK, so no penalty. Keepers are also exempt from DOGSO-Handling so shouldn't see a red card for it. Some people will argue you could still send the keeper for DOGSO-F, but I'm skeptical of that argument. In NFHS I don't think you can make the argument at all, and in IFAB world I think it's quite a stretch.)

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2019, 10:03:59 am »
Please elaborate:

... Some people will argue you could still send the keeper for DOGSO-F, but I'm skeptical of that argument. In NFHS I don't think you can make the argument at all, and in IFAB world I think it's quite a stretch.

Are you saying the keeper cannot be sent off for a DOGSO foul?   

Offline chaoslord

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2019, 10:28:54 am »
Please elaborate:

Are you saying the keeper cannot be sent off for a DOGSO foul?

Sorry, was not as clear as I should have been.

A keeper can't be sent off for DOGSO related to handling the ball in their penalty area. This is explicitly called out in 12-8-2-d-2 "...a player (other than a goalkeeper within his/her own penalty area) deliberately handles the ball, attempting to prevent a goal and the goal is not scored." But there are two flavors of DOGSO- H (handling) and F (free kick).

There is at least on referee I have known to make the argument that, since picking up a backpass is punishable by a free kick, you could still ring up a keeper for DOGSO - F.  I was saying that argument is not really defensible, in my mind.

Keepers can and should get sent off for DOGSO - F when appropriate, just as long as it's not handling being shoe horned in.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2019, 11:21:23 am »
Got'cha Chaoslord - thanks! 


Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2019, 01:05:44 pm »
What's the protocol for stopping the match for a non-head injury situation? Are you supposed to assess where the injured player(s) is/are down on the pitch and make a judgment call, or stop play immediately so that the injured player(s) can be tended to as soon as possible?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 01:09:23 pm by VHSCoach2 »

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2019, 02:08:12 pm »
This may not be exactly by the book, but here's what comes to my mind anyway.......

I know you said non-head injury, but let's start with a head injury.  Mainly because a head injury is one of those occurrences you just don't take a chance with - you stop play immediately.  I'd also stop play immediately if there was a breathing issue, or some other sign of obvious serious distress.  (And yes, i've seen a broken leg on the field of play - with the leg folded over on a 90 degree unnatural angle - we're stopping for this too).  The serious stuff - we are stopping for.  If a coach gets mad over losing a potential advantage when a serious injury situation occurs, too bad.     

Now, if it is NOT a head injury AND it is not serious, the referee needs to quickly assess the situation.

If the injured player is on the team NOT in control of the ball, I am going to try and let the play continue.  In many instances, a player down with cramps or even a decent knock is away from the active area of play (thus in no immediate danger), I want to let the play go until an opportunity presents itself to more naturally stop play (ball in touch, ball in keeper's hands, goal kick - something like this) that would NOT deny the team in possession an advantage. 

If the injured player is a teammate of the player in control of the ball, I am going to be much quicker to stop play because high school rules allow a means to handle this situation that club rules do not.  Specifically, if the referee stops the game to deal with an injury (meaning there is NOT any other reason for a restart), the ball can be put back in play with an indirect kick for the team in possesson of the ball.  I stil do not want to deny an advantage situation if one develops, but my natural reaction is going to be to stop play quicker when the team in possesion of the ball has an injury situation.     

I should pause here and say this is a subject that should be discussed in the pre game between officials.  Handling injury situations on the fly demands communication with the referee crew.  If I am the CR and an injury situation occurs, it is often (but not always) the case that play will move AWAY from the injured player.  If I (as the CR) do not feel I should stop play, I want my trail AR to then watch / observe the injured player.  If I have missed something (and the player may be in danger), I want my trail AR to let me know immediately (and if my lead AR sees this, they should mirror any signal from the trail AR). 

To directly answer the question, I (again as the CR) need to make a quick read of the injury situation and determine appropriate action(s) to take. 
If I believe I can allow play to continue (as the injury is not one that requires immediate assistance), I should allow play to conintue.
If I have any doubt about the injury situation, I should stop play and allow the player to be attended to because player safety is a primary concern for the referee crew.   
Every situation is unique and has to (quickly) be judged on its own merit(s). 
As a referee, I will not always make the right call in these situations so I understand why a referee would stop play if in doubt when an injury occurs.   

Offline sssuperpantherfan2

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2019, 06:21:27 pm »
Is it not legal to kick the ball if you are on the ground and not standing aside from a slide tackle?

Offline WillC

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2019, 12:17:17 am »
Is it not legal to kick the ball if you are on the ground and not standing aside from a slide tackle?

Playing the ball on the ground is not a foul by itself. It is perfectly legal as long as it is not deemed "dangerous play," which is defined as "...playing in such a manner which could cause injury to self or another player." If a player is scooting across the ground kicking at the ball by himself, he doesn't meet the threshold of "dangerous play." When there's another player nearby, kicking from the ground has the potential to meet this threshold.

In that situation, I tend to make the call based on the part of the foot swinging at the ball. Typically, if a player is on the ground and puts his laces through the ball, it's no more "dangerous" than a normal slide tackle. If he is sitting under someone and wildly swiping with his toes up and studs exposed, it's a different story, and would result in an indirect free kick.

Offline Arbitro

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2019, 01:16:47 pm »
Now, if it is NOT a head injury AND it is not serious, the referee needs to quickly assess the situation.

If the injured player is on the team NOT in control of the ball, I am going to try and let the play continue.  In many instances, a player down with cramps or even a decent knock is away from the active area of play (thus in no immediate danger), I want to let the play go until an opportunity presents itself to more naturally stop play (ball in touch, ball in keeper's hands, goal kick - something like this) that would NOT deny the team in possession an advantage. 

If the injured player is a teammate of the player in control of the ball, I am going to be much quicker to stop play because high school rules allow a means to handle this situation that club rules do not.  Specifically, if the referee stops the game to deal with an injury (meaning there is NOT any other reason for a restart), the ball can be put back in play with an indirect kick for the team in possesson of the ball.  I stil do not want to deny an advantage situation if one develops, but my natural reaction is going to be to stop play quicker when the team in possesion of the ball has an injury situation.     


As Seven has said, the statement in bold type above is true for the current season.  However, the NFHS rules committee is changing this rule for the 2019/2020 school year.  The new text of the rules reads:
Quote

9-2-1: The game is restarted with a drop ball:
a. when the ball is caused to go out of bounds by two opponents simultaneously;
b. when the ball becomes deflated;
c. following temporary suspension of play for an injury or unusual situation and a goalkeeper is not in possession of the ball
d. when simultaneous fouls of the same degree occur by opponents.

Rationale: This rule changes the awarding of a free kick to a drop ball thereby possibly creating a scoring opportunity for a team undeserving.

and

9-3: In case of a temporary suspension due to injury or any unusual situation the game shall be started by a drop ball at the point where the ball was when the play was suspended (except as noted in 14-1-7), provided the ball was not in the goal area and not in the possession of the goalkeeper.  12-8-2

Rationale: This change will eliminate free kick opportunities that often create scoring opportunities that are not deserved.


So for the current season if the referee stops play solely to deal with an injury, a team in possession of the ball is given an indirect free kick for the restart.  Next year the restart will be a dropped ball unless a keeper has possession of the ball. 

Offline chandler

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2019, 12:19:28 am »
As Seven has said, the statement in bold type above is true for the current season.  However, the NFHS rules committee is changing this rule for the 2019/2020 school year.  The new text of the rules reads:
So for the current season if the referee stops play solely to deal with an injury, a team in possession of the ball is given an indirect free kick for the restart.  Next year the restart will be a dropped ball unless a keeper has possession of the ball.

Seems like a lot of referees are already doing this (restart with a drop ball), which is fine with me.

Offline Lionheart88

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2019, 10:36:59 pm »
Nevermind.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2019, 08:25:54 am »

Offline jimmyt

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2019, 08:47:24 am »
If there is a restart of a drop ball after stoppage for injury, I have seen multiple refs tell the kids what to do next "drop it to the keeper" or telling one team to back up so they can drop it to the other team.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the wrong way of doing it. The ref should not give instruction for where the players must take the ball after the drop ball or tell one team to back up so he can drop it specifically for another team.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I like the indirect kick for injury stoppage.

Offline Go Postal

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2019, 12:09:13 pm »
Also when is appropriate for the team with the ball to play the ball (for instance, kick out of bounds) to the other team as a "courtesy" ball?

I like when they do that to show good sportmanship.

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2019, 01:06:28 pm »
Also when is appropriate for the team with the ball to play the ball (for instance, kick out of bounds) to the other team as a "courtesy" ball?

I like when they do that to show good sportmanship.

We had an instance like this a few years ago. On our Senior Night, we wanted to start two seniors who had suffered season-ending (and, in their instances, career-ending since soccer wasn't an option in college) injuries. Communication between the coaches and referees took place before the match, and it was agreed upon that those two would "start" the match and just stand by the touch-line on the field. The other team kicked the ball out of bounds after kickoff, and we subbed those two off and then threw the ball back in to the other team and started playing.

Offline Arbitro

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Re: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2019, 02:45:36 pm »
If there is a restart of a drop ball after stoppage for injury, I have seen multiple refs tell the kids what to do next "drop it to the keeper" or telling one team to back up so they can drop it to the other team.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the wrong way of doing it. The ref should not give instruction for where the players must take the ball after the drop ball or tell one team to back up so he can drop it specifically for another team.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I like the indirect kick for injury stoppage.
Also when is appropriate for the team with the ball to play the ball (for instance, kick out of bounds) to the other team as a "courtesy" ball?

I like when they do that to show good sportmanship.
These questions are directly related.  First off, the referee cannot officially tell players to kick the ball out, nor can they dictate which players can be present at a dropped ball or what should happen after the ball is dropped and hits the ground.  However, soccer as a world sport has a few conventions that high school players may or may not know, but referees may be inclined to encourage.  If Team A kicks the ball out because a player is hurt, when Team B takes the throw in they are expected to return the ball to Team A (in a manner that doesn't put B at immediate risk).  One act of good sportsmanship deserves another.  The same goes for some drop ball situations.  Rather than have a contested drop ball where players are at risk of kicking each other (or the referee!) a team may agree to kick the ball back to the other team's defensive end or keeper and not challenge for that ball.  The referee may even drop the ball to a keeper alone, but both teams understand the situation and are in agreement.  The decision is ultimately the players', not the referee's.

High school has a mix of players with varying degrees of experience with the game.  Players with limited exposure to soccer outside of high school may not be aware of this type of sportsmanship.  Sometimes referees take it upon themselves to educate them - with occasionally mixed results.  Most players will buy into the concept if it is explained to them, but ultimately it is their decision and the referee should not take that out of their hands.

Years back I was watching a U18 Rec game officiated by a state level referee (very experienced).  A drop ball situation occurred where it was appropriate for one team to get the ball, however several of the players were not knowledgeable enough to recognize it.  When both teams approached to contest the ball, the referee stepped in front of one player and dropped the ball to the other.  Let's just say there were some unhappy players (and fans).  The coach explained the reasoning to the players a few minutes later at the half and they understood, but a little explanation on the field by the referee would have been helpful!

 

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