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Author Topic: Running the spread without athletes  (Read 7984 times)

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Offline XFalkonz

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Running the spread without athletes
« on: December 07, 2013, 12:58:12 pm »
Should a team run the spread when they do not have the athletes to run it or should they stay with a offense that is a more compact three yards and a cloud of dust

Offline Busman

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 06:07:15 pm »
The spread was specifically designed for teams with less than stellar athletes.

Offline True Fan

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 06:26:48 pm »
That's exactly what I was thinking Busman.

Offline XFalkonz

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 11:06:08 pm »
I have seen teams with almost no athletes run it and couldn't move the ball....it may have been designed for those types of teams but there are teams that cannot run it....do you just keep running it and hope for better athletes in the future or find another one that fits

Offline True Fan

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 12:21:11 am »
With no talent, do you think that they could gain 3 yards? Trying to find a mismatch to gain an advantage may be their only hope.

Offline Busman

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 09:21:13 am »
It became the flavor of the month. Fans wanted their coaches to run it, so they did. Just like any offense, you still have to coach it properly. Less talented teams that line up and do the three yards and a cloud of dust aren't trying to win- they are trying to control the margin they get beat by. Some people think Cabot's offense is like that, but they don't know it very well. Every play they run is designed to score if everybody does their job.

Offline slowntheMUD

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 09:59:00 am »
When running the spread, a factor that seems to be more important that athleticism is the ability to think and adapt quickly. I have seen very slow teams un athletic teams run the spread and be unstoppable doing it. They just didn't make mistakes. They were methodical. They took what they could get. Three yards on a screen. Four yards on inside zone. Won alot of games. But, the key was they would adapt and adjust constantly. The receivers ran option routes, the QB had several "If this, Then do this" reads for every play. QB was free to audible on almost every play. Put it simply. The kids had to be very sharp.
I have also seen VERY athletic teams try to run the spread and fail miserably because a lack of flexibility. Once a play was called that was what they ran because they could not adjust or change plays on the fly. Very challenged. I believe that a teams ability to think in the spread is more important to athleticism.

Offline Iron Owl

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 09:33:02 pm »
Watching the 3A down south, it seems like most of the smaller schools have gone to to kind of spread, but mostly run out of it.  At seems to me that only those with a very talented QB are very effective passing it.  Our school is a power run team, that tries to take advantage of play action.  This years Charleston Tigers had the best spread passing attack that I have seen in 3A football.  Ofcourse, they had a very talented QB that could sling it very accuratley...and when the pass somewhat broke down against our defense, he ran draws up the middle and killed us.  It goes back I guess to that old saying..no matter what offense your running, "you got to have the jimmy's and the Joe's, to run the X's and O's."

Offline the_kosher_pig

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2013, 02:01:03 pm »
I still see the top teams in AA win with defense.  Junction City/Des Arc/Bearden/Gurdon all won being stellar on defense.

Offline cuz

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 08:42:48 am »
I still see the top teams in AA win with defense.  Junction City/Des Arc/Bearden/Gurdon all won being stellar on defense.
Some seem to have a stellar offense to go with that defense also........... ;)

Offline Iknewthemwhen

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 11:03:38 pm »
Always comes back to the right athletes to execute.  Teams without athletes do not win very many games regardless of what offense they run.  I see plenty of spread teams getting beat badly because they lack a good QB or RB or OL or no RCRs. The system will not work without talent.

Offline minerjack

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2014, 11:40:44 am »
At Bauxite, we didn't have stellar athletes.  We honestly had mediocre athletes.  Our class ran the under center split back veer and lost 6 games from the sixth grade until we graduated.  I think we averaged 6 yards a carry.  Our biggest key to success was discipline, though.  We had undersized linemen, but used that to our advantage.  We put our face mask in the hip pocket of the defensive tackle and used the element of surprise with traps and cross bucks. 

The spread was invented for lesser athletic teams, but only for running the ball.  The concept is to go from 10 defenders in the box while running a heavy offense to using open space  and stretching the defense and taking away three or four of those defenders out of the box so you can run the ball.  Passing the ball in the spread is a whole other monster.  The pass oriented spread offense was not invented for lesser athletic athletes.

Offline Iknewthemwhen

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2014, 01:24:54 pm »
The concept of the spread is pretty well known but it requires some talent, hard workers, discipline, weight room work, team speed and so on to be successful. Just like any other system.  I agree that undersized players can win and the physically best individual is not always the best player but you still have to have some relative degree od talent.  Another thing, the spread run is to open up run lanes but a large part of that is so offensive lineman have an easier read for blocking assignments and less blitz combos for the defense.  Havent you ever seen a spread team handled in the box with just 5 guys?

Offline Lions84

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 01:06:27 pm »
The Spread works if you can do some short accurate passing. Down here We run the Spread mainly as a Run first alot like what Gus does at UA.

Offline Iknewthemwhen

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2014, 07:32:25 pm »
Short quick passing game is considered by many as an extension of the run game. Throw the screen, flare, swing routes keep it in the shallow flat and turn a missed tackle or blown cover into a big play. Otherwise take your 3-5 yards and go on to next play.

Offline Lions84

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 08:26:13 am »
Short quick passing game is considered by many as an extension of the run game. Throw the screen, flare, swing routes keep it in the shallow flat and turn a missed tackle or blown cover into a big play. Otherwise take your 3-5 yards and go on to next play.

Yep this year our returning QB left over the summer and we had to start a Sophmore who spent his Freshman year on Varisty as a WR. After playing QB all through JR High. He lost his first game but settled down and we went 9-4 on the season.

Offline Qdog

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2014, 03:03:56 pm »
In my opinion for the spread option to be successful the QB must be smart, able to see the field and take what the defense gives him, but most importantly he must also be a threat to run the ball. With out a running threat at qb the defense will quickly learn to key on the RB thus shutting down the run game. A  quick, hard running qb who can read the end and pull the ball and take off will make the spread offense go. When the defense has to account for the qb every play it opens up the offense.

Offline Lions84

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 12:27:19 pm »
Yes and we run a Jet sweep out of our Spread using the Slot Receiver as a RB he gets the ball 4-8 times a game just to keep the D on it's toes along with our Trips rollout QB run play.  Our QB reads the play side end every play if he starts crashing on the inside zone , trap or dive runs he pulls the ball and takes off.

http://www.hudl.com/team/24158/highlights/46524821
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:29:45 pm by Lions84 »

Offline Iknewthemwhen

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2014, 01:51:35 am »
Running any offense without athletes is not going to be very successful.  Spread or Dead T, nothings goes without the horses.

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2014, 12:19:06 pm »
See Paragould...... No matter what offense they run, they lose ! Johnny and Joe's beats x's and O's !

Offline Oldbadger

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2014, 08:34:29 am »
In my opinion for the spread option to be successful the QB must be smart, able to see the field and take what the defense gives him, but most importantly he must also be a threat to run the ball. With out a running threat at qb the defense will quickly learn to key on the RB thus shutting down the run game. A  quick, hard running qb who can read the end and pull the ball and take off will make the spread offense go. When the defense has to account for the qb every play it opens up the offense.
I think this is exactly right!  Lincoln was a prime example of this.  QB could run and throw with a quick, fast RB.  Key on one, the other kills you.  Ask Malvern!  Lincoln averaged over 30 points per game.  However, defense is crucial.  Score all you want and if the other team scores more, well, you lose. LOL.  Lincoln allowed only 13 ppg. 

Offline Lions84

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2014, 11:26:24 am »
See Paragould...... No matter what offense they run, they lose ! Johnny and Joe's beats x's and O's !

That is true in the final analyse, But changes in your O system can take a 4-6 team to 7-3 if the old system did not get the best kids the ball in situations that they could make plays.

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 12:35:12 pm »
See Paragould...... No matter what offense they run, they lose ! Johnny and Joe's beats x's and O's !

That is true in the final analyse, But changes in your O system can take a 4-6 team to 7-3 if the old system did not get the best kids the ball in situations that they could make plays.

That is true with the exception of  Paragould.  4-6 in Paragould is a winning season. Sheridan and Huntsville are in the same boat. I think Hot Springs is the biggest proof that losing is contagious at some schools. The Trojans have atheletes, but continue to loose regardless of what offense they run.

Offline Iknewthemwhen

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2014, 09:18:14 pm »
I'd say talent is vital.  I love to hear folks talk about hard work and how hard a kid wants it.  While those things are true to some extent, you have to have a talent base to start with.  Nobody wins with no talent.  If talented coaches always win, then some very talented coaches found a way to screw up during some of their seasons.     One of the most important aspects of coaching is getting kids in the right system and the right position within that system.  Coaches who never adjust scheme to the talent on hand are not doing the kids justice.  Fortunately some coaches are in places where talent is plentiful and the tradition to play and work hard is deep.

Offline Busman

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2014, 07:37:42 am »
Another factor is familiarity. The more defenses see the spread, the more they will understand it and be in the right position at the right time to stop it. In the 70's, the wishbone was THE offense. But as defenses saw it, they were able to adjust. Now, the bone is the rarity and opposing teams don't practice every week against it, so it is now successful as a novelty offense.

Offline Lions84

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Re: Running the spread without athletes
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2014, 05:59:08 pm »
We had a team that just started football 4 years ago run the Wishbone but their D was like Swiss  Cheese.

 

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