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Author Topic: Changes to the AAA  (Read 11281 times)

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Offline blueandwhite

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #100 on: January 16, 2018, 02:06:38 pm »
Numbers from 2013-2014 season

Average scores of games without shot clock 60-44.2
Average scores of games with shot clock 58.5-42.9
Average scores in Arkansas 57.6-42.8

So the shot clock really does not have any effect on the game. People who are wanting the shot clock just want to see shooting, and forget about the other facets of the game like ball handling, passing, and playing good defense


Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #101 on: January 16, 2018, 03:59:13 pm »
Numbers from 2013-2014 season

Average scores of games without shot clock 60-44.2
Average scores of games with shot clock 58.5-42.9
Average scores in Arkansas 57.6-42.8

So the shot clock really does not have any effect on the game. People who are wanting the shot clock just want to see shooting, and forget about the other facets of the game like ball handling, passing, and playing good defense

I guess you just posted without reading the first 100 posts on this topic.... What I took away from reading peoples' posts is they just want to stop the stalling. I don't understand how making sure someone takes a shot in 3/4 of a minute makes the other aspects of the game like dribbling, passing, and defense go away. Last time I checked you couldn't just stand there with the ball for entire 45 seconds. A whole lot of dribbling, passing, and defense goes on in 45 second spans.

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #102 on: January 16, 2018, 05:13:42 pm »
beach, are you a proponent of going back to the 5 classification structure? It will never happen, but I like to bring it up every once in awhile. I know NWA and LR are much bigger than the 6A schools, but I just think competition is better with 7A+6A=5A  5A=4A   4A=3A  3A+2A=2A   1A=1A or something of the sort.

At least they are trying to address this in all other sports but football.

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #103 on: January 16, 2018, 07:41:33 pm »
I'm ok with a shot clock that forces a team to shoot as long as the following rules are implemented also:

No zone defense
Defensive 3 seconds
A player more than 2" taller than the other team's tallest player must stay at least 8' from the goal at all times.

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #104 on: January 16, 2018, 07:48:39 pm »
I'm ok with a shot clock that forces a team to shoot as long as the following rules are implemented also:

No zone defense
Defensive 3 seconds
A player more than 2" taller than the other team's tallest player must stay at least 8' from the goal at all times.

You're trying to make a point, but I don't see it.

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #105 on: January 16, 2018, 08:43:22 pm »
You're trying to make a point, but I don't see it.

My point is HS coaches don't get to pick their players so they have to play a style based on their personnel that gives them the best chance to win.  For some the style of play that makes them successful is a delay offense. A shot clock takes their advantage away. If you take their advantage away then there should be a rule that takes a team's height advantage away, or there should be a rule that doesn't allow a team to pack a zone in against a team that doesn't shoot well but penetrates well. If not you're just punishing a certain style of play some fans don't like but it's not about the fans.

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2018, 08:49:08 pm »
My point is HS coaches don't get to pick their players so they have to play a style based on their personnel that gives them the best chance to win.  For some the style of play that makes them successful is a delay offense. A shot clock takes their advantage away. If you take their advantage away then there should be a rule that takes a team's height advantage away, or there should be a rule that doesn't allow a team to pack a zone in against a team that doesn't shoot well but penetrates well. If not you're just punishing a certain style of play some fans don't like but it's not about the fans.

It sort of is about the fans in a way, though. Maybe not as much in high school, but fan support is partial funding for these athletic programs.

That said, your examples are nothing like the shot clock.

The shot clock is an institution that is accepted and good thing in all other levels of basketball. None of the ones you mentioned are.

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2018, 08:55:20 pm »
It sort of is about the fans in a way, though. Maybe not as much in high school, but fan support is partial funding for these athletic programs.

That said, your examples are nothing like the shot clock.

The shot clock is an institution that is accepted and good thing in all other levels of basketball. None of the ones you mentioned are.

Explain how my examples are not like the shot clock?  It's an external force that dictates a team's pace of play. The shot clock is good at other levels because other levels choose their players. Apples and oranges.

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2018, 09:10:44 pm »
Explain how my examples are not like the shot clock?  It's an external force that dictates a team's pace of play. The shot clock is good at other levels because other levels choose their players. Apples and oranges.

The three point line was adopted by high schools. It was seen as a gimmick.

A 45 second shot clock really shouldn't be too little for "delay offense" style coaches.

It is silly for fans and a team to watch a team dribble and pass a ball around for minutes at a time just to limit possessions. It is not in the spirit of the sport and doesn't even really make for much competition.

A shot clock, a reasonable one, makes for a more competitive game. Not in terms of margin, but in terms of teams intending to score and run an offense to play basketball and not keep away.


Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2018, 09:28:49 pm »
The three point line was adopted by high schools. It was seen as a gimmick.

A 45 second shot clock really shouldn't be too little for "delay offense" style coaches.

It is silly for fans and a team to watch a team dribble and pass a ball around for minutes at a time just to limit possessions. It is not in the spirit of the sport and doesn't even really make for much competition.

A shot clock, a reasonable one, makes for a more competitive game. Not in terms of margin, but in terms of teams intending to score and run an offense to play basketball and not keep away.

You didn't answer my question.

It's a external force that dictates the pace of play. At the high school level players should dictate the pace of play.

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2018, 09:33:54 pm »
Sure I'll answer it:

The shot clock keeps the flow of the game and the spirit of basketball more.

The other rules do not.



Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2018, 09:35:21 pm »
Also, the shot clock is a literal external force on pace of play while the others are implied or intended to.

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2018, 09:48:13 pm »
Sure I'll answer it:

The shot clock keeps the flow of the game and the spirit of basketball more.

The other rules do not.

The spirit of the game is to win. If you don't have the ability to keep a team from running a delay offense without a shot clock do you really deserve to win? 

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2018, 09:53:29 pm »
Also, fouls affect the flow of the game. Timeouts affect the flow of the game.  Should they be eliminated from the game? 

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2018, 09:54:15 pm »
The spirit of the game is to win. If you don't have the ability to keep a team from running a delay offense without a shot clock do you really deserve to win?

No that's the ultimate outcome of the game. The intention of basketball isn't to play keep a way.

If you don't have the ability to score points in the natural flow of a game, do you really deserve a chance to win?

Since high schools can't choose their players, why don't we lower the rims to 8 feet? Why don't we give kids 3 free throws on every shooting foul? Why don't we make it where high school players can take 3 steps and pick up their pivot foot?

Shot clocks have proven good for basketball. This doesn't mean it has to be good for high school basketball, but your reasoning of it takes away a viable strategy doesn't resonate with me.

Why is it good for basketball that a team can dribble around for the last 3 minutes of the game with a few good ballhandlers? It really isn't that hard. Dribble until you are trapped and pass to the open man. Eventually, defensive team that is behind has to foul after 3 minutes. It just isn't good for basketball in my opinion.

Stall strategy is a viable strategy under the current rules, but I don't like watching it and most other fans don't either. Heck, do kids really enjoy playing it?

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2018, 09:55:23 pm »
Also, fouls affect the flow of the game. Timeouts affect the flow of the game.  Should they be eliminated from the game?

You've jumped from adding rules to taking away rules. I can't really follow your points.

Tell me how a 45 second shot clock hurts the game of basketball.

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2018, 10:28:54 pm »
You've jumped from adding rules to taking away rules. I can't really follow your points.

Tell me how a 45 second shot clock hurts the game of basketball.

It's not about adding or subtracting. You want a shot clock to improve the flow of the game. I say take fouls and timeouts away and it helps the flow of the game. That's your goal, right?

A shot clock in high school hurts the game because coaches don't pick their players. Good coaches win by changing their game plan based on their player's talent level and opponent. A shot clock limits that and doesn't give a coach an opportunity to put his/her kids in the best position to win. Do you have a problem with a team that pounds it inside because they have a height advantage or do you consider it a good game plan?  Do you have a problem with a team packing a zone in against a team that can't shoot or do you consider it a good game plan?  Of course you would say it's a good game plan. So why would you consider a game plan of slowing it down and limiting the touches of a big man that you have trouble guarding a bad game plan?  The only reason is because you don't like that style of play. But again, it's not about you.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:30:49 pm by Outoftownfan »

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2018, 11:24:08 pm »
You're trying to make a point, but I don't see it.
Alma, you make a good point about his not making a point... lol

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2018, 11:26:14 pm »
beach, are you a proponent of going back to the 5 classification structure? It will never happen, but I like to bring it up every once in awhile. I know NWA and LR are much bigger than the 6A schools, but I just think competition is better with 7A+6A=5A  5A=4A   4A=3A  3A+2A=2A   1A=1A or something of the sort.

At least they are trying to address this in all other sports but football.
im not a beach, but I think 5A is all we need... outside of FB.  But, itíll never go back. Itís gonna be something coaches, parents and admin will gripe about no matter which way you slice the pie

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2018, 05:34:48 am »
Alma, you make a good point about his not making a point... lol

That's the best you got??

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2018, 08:05:29 am »
Nope. 

We should help you get an IEP for debate class.  Let's schedule a meeting for your mother to come meet with the sped teacher, and your regular ed teachers to see if you need modifications for any other classes.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2018, 08:13:10 am »
Please forgive me for that, and pray for the pygmies down in papua new guinea

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #122 on: January 17, 2018, 08:29:51 am »
Nope. 

We should help you get an IEP for debate class.  Let's schedule a meeting for your mother to come meet with the sped teacher, and your regular ed teachers to see if you need modifications for any other classes.

Obviously you don't have anything.  Your response is 3rd grade stuff.  No substance.

Offline OB11

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2018, 08:32:04 am »
I'd be willing to be that if you polled every coach in the state, the majority would favor a shot clock.

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #124 on: January 17, 2018, 08:53:41 am »
No that's the ultimate outcome of the game. The intention of basketball isn't to play keep a way.

If you don't have the ability to score points in the natural flow of a game, do you really deserve a chance to win?

Since high schools can't choose their players, why don't we lower the rims to 8 feet? Why don't we give kids 3 free throws on every shooting foul? Why don't we make it where high school players can take 3 steps and pick up their pivot foot?

Shot clocks have proven good for basketball. This doesn't mean it has to be good for high school basketball, but your reasoning of it takes away a viable strategy doesn't resonate with me.

Why is it good for basketball that a team can dribble around for the last 3 minutes of the game with a few good ballhandlers? It really isn't that hard. Dribble until you are trapped and pass to the open man. Eventually, defensive team that is behind has to foul after 3 minutes. It just isn't good for basketball in my opinion.

Stall strategy is a viable strategy under the current rules, but I don't like watching it and most other fans don't either. Heck, do kids really enjoy playing it?
Exactly

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #125 on: January 17, 2018, 08:55:02 am »
I'd be willing to be that if you polled every coach in the state, the majority would favor a shot clock.
There would be some that didn't.  You know the ones.  They call a set play every time down the court guy....

Offline OB11

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #126 on: January 17, 2018, 08:57:55 am »
There would be some that didn't.  You know the ones.  They call a set play every time down the court guy....

IMO adding a shot clock is not that much different than what the AAA did with baseball by instituting the new pitch count rules. It has forced coaches to develop more pitching and not rely on one or two guys for every game.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #127 on: January 17, 2018, 09:18:18 am »
Obviously you don't have anything.  Your response is 3rd grade stuff.  No substance.
My dad could beat up your dad...

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #128 on: January 17, 2018, 09:19:30 am »
There would be some that didn't.  You know the ones.  They call a set play every time down the court guy....

And if that wins ballgames for their kids more power to him/her.  If your kid could shoot the lights out off a screen but couldn't get their own shot to save their life, you would want the coach to run them off double or triple screens all night.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #129 on: January 17, 2018, 09:26:04 am »
Definitely not promoting violence here! It was kinda funny in hindsight, that one of my little league coaches, when I was the youngest on the team, and not the best, played me middle infield all year long, when others would've been a better choice, but found out that my dad had whooped the coach in their younger days lol

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #130 on: January 17, 2018, 09:41:02 am »
OK, I am as guilty as anyone, what were the original thoughts in this thread?  It was more than just shot clock... We have had fun arguing opposing views on that...

How about the little new rules that are made up each year, just for the sake of having a new "point of emphasis" that doesn't make anything better for anybody?  How about a Republican NFHS president who believes in removing restrictive regulations? lol
Can we not let kids dunk in pre game warm ups?  Is it really that bad of a sin?  Do we have to nit pick the colors of under shirts, head bands, wrist bands, socks, that kids wear?  Can we not step on the sideline to take a charge?  Can we not wear silver or gold as a home color instead of white, especially when white is not one of your official school colors?  Can we not have quality hospitality rooms at tournaments, especially the finals?  Can we not smoke a victory cigar on the sidelines and bleachers when victory is imminent?

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #131 on: January 17, 2018, 10:09:51 am »
The no dunking rule in warmups in ridiculous

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #132 on: January 17, 2018, 10:12:50 am »
Why yes Mr Neck, I believe it is quite ridonkulous.  Now, if a kid goes out and hangs on it for too long... ok, not good.

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #133 on: January 17, 2018, 10:14:25 am »
No that's the ultimate outcome of the game. The intention of basketball isn't to play keep a way.

If you don't have the ability to score points in the natural flow of a game, do you really deserve a chance to win?

Since high schools can't choose their players, why don't we lower the rims to 8 feet? Why don't we give kids 3 free throws on every shooting foul? Why don't we make it where high school players can take 3 steps and pick up their pivot foot?

Shot clocks have proven good for basketball. This doesn't mean it has to be good for high school basketball, but your reasoning of it takes away a viable strategy doesn't resonate with me.


Stall strategy is a viable strategy under the current rules, but I don't like watching it and most other fans don't either. Heck, do kids really enjoy playing it?

Again, it's not about what you like or dislike.  It's about a coach giving his kids the best opportunity to win. Kids want to win and parents want their kids to win.  Whats better? My kid and his/her team won 43-40 or my kid's team lost 62-40?  I'd venture to say if your kid was playing for a coach that was losing games playing uptempo with players not capable of doing so you wouldn't say "but gosh it was great to watch em run up and down the floor at a fast pace."  You'd want him/her run out of town.

Your quote.......Since high schools can't choose their players, why don't we lower the rims to 8 feet? Why don't we give kids 3 free throws on every shooting foul? Why don't we make it where high school players can take 3 steps and pick up their pivot foot?...This was exactly my argument early on. You are asking for a rule change to benefit teams that can't guard well enough, press well enough, etc. to dictate the pace of play. 

If this is fair then.......to your point......and my early point..

Let's make the lane 12' wide and make it 2 seconds in the lane for teams with no height so they don't have to strategize to overcome the height difference.  Let's say you don't even shoot free throws to help teams that can't shoot them well. We could go on and on.

This quote....Shot clocks have proven good for basketball. This doesn't mean it has to be good for high school basketball, but your reasoning of it takes away a viable strategy doesn't resonate with me...This makes no sense. What you are saying is you really don't care if it's good or bad, it would just make your viewing pleasure better.

This quote...Why is it good for basketball that a team can dribble around for the last 3 minutes of the game with a few good ballhandlers? It really isn't that hard. Dribble until you are trapped and pass to the open man. Eventually, defensive team that is behind has to foul after 3 minutes. It just isn't good for basketball in my opinion....If you think running a delay offense isn't difficult you've not played the game much.  It takes skill and discipline to hold on to the ball for any extended amount of time without turning it over against a team that can guard.









« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 10:21:08 am by Outoftownfan »

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #134 on: January 17, 2018, 10:16:45 am »
Again, it's not about what you like or dislike.  It's about a coach giving his kids the best opportunity to win. Kids want to win and parents want their kids to win.  Whats better? My kid and his team won 43-40 or my kid's team lost 62-40?  I'd venture to say if your kid was playing for a coach that was losing games playing uptempo with players not capable of doing so you wouldn't say "but gosh it was great to watch em run up and down the floor at a fast pace."  You'd want him/her run out of town.

Your quote.......Since high schools can't choose their players, why don't we lower the rims to 8 feet? Why don't we give kids 3 free throws on every shooting foul? Why don't we make it where high school players can take 3 steps and pick up their pivot foot?...This was exactly my argument early on. You are asking for a rule change to benefit teams that can't guard well enough, press well enough, etc. to dictate the pace of play. 

If this is fair then.......to your point......and my early point..

Let's make the lane 12' wide and make it 2 seconds in the lane for teams with no height so they don't have to strategize to overcome the height difference.  Let's say you don't even shoot free throws to help teams that can't shoot them well. We could go on and on.

This quote....Shot clocks have proven good for basketball. This doesn't mean it has to be good for high school basketball, but your reasoning of it takes away a viable strategy doesn't resonate with me....makes no sense.....What you are saying is you really don't care if it's good or bad, it would just make your viewing pleasure better.

This quote...Why is it good for basketball that a team can dribble around for the last 3 minutes of the game with a few good ballhandlers? It really isn't that hard. Dribble until you are trapped and pass to the open man. Eventually, defensive team that is behind has to foul after 3 minutes. It just isn't good for basketball in my opinion....If you think running a delay offense isn't difficult you've not played the game much.  It takes skill and discipline to hold on to the ball for any extended amount of time without turning it over against a team that can guard.










This is fake news.  most be a CNN reporter...

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #135 on: January 17, 2018, 10:19:08 am »
This is fake news.  most be a CNN reporter...

Bless your heart.

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #136 on: January 17, 2018, 10:23:28 am »
Bless your heart.
Rot Roh we got us a Trump hater!

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #137 on: January 17, 2018, 10:27:49 am »
Maybe he just hates InTowners

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #138 on: January 17, 2018, 12:55:43 pm »
Again, it's not about what you like or dislike.  It's about a coach giving his kids the best opportunity to win. Kids want to win and parents want their kids to win.  Whats better? My kid and his/her team won 43-40 or my kid's team lost 62-40?  I'd venture to say if your kid was playing for a coach that was losing games playing uptempo with players not capable of doing so you wouldn't say "but gosh it was great to watch em run up and down the floor at a fast pace."  You'd want him/her run out of town.

Your quote.......Since high schools can't choose their players, why don't we lower the rims to 8 feet? Why don't we give kids 3 free throws on every shooting foul? Why don't we make it where high school players can take 3 steps and pick up their pivot foot?...This was exactly my argument early on. You are asking for a rule change to benefit teams that can't guard well enough, press well enough, etc. to dictate the pace of play. 

If this is fair then.......to your point......and my early point..

Let's make the lane 12' wide and make it 2 seconds in the lane for teams with no height so they don't have to strategize to overcome the height difference.  Let's say you don't even shoot free throws to help teams that can't shoot them well. We could go on and on.

This quote....Shot clocks have proven good for basketball. This doesn't mean it has to be good for high school basketball, but your reasoning of it takes away a viable strategy doesn't resonate with me...This makes no sense. What you are saying is you really don't care if it's good or bad, it would just make your viewing pleasure better.

This quote...Why is it good for basketball that a team can dribble around for the last 3 minutes of the game with a few good ballhandlers? It really isn't that hard. Dribble until you are trapped and pass to the open man. Eventually, defensive team that is behind has to foul after 3 minutes. It just isn't good for basketball in my opinion....If you think running a delay offense isn't difficult you've not played the game much.  It takes skill and discipline to hold on to the ball for any extended amount of time without turning it over against a team that can guard.

I'm not going to dissect each of you points anymore, but answer this question if you will:

Would you support taking away the 10 second back court violation. Would you support taking away the 5 second engagement rule? And if not, why not?

Also, you do realize other states have implemented the shot clock in high school?

Lastly, no it isn't about "me", but yes it is partially about the fans. Perhaps not in high school as much as other levels of sports, but (when it comes to public schools), guess who pays for the coaches salaries, facilities, and equipment? The taxpayers. Who are the taxpayers? The fans.

We can act like no shot clock is some gimmick that only fans want and they should think of the children first, but that just isn't the case here. Shot clocks only make for a more competitive, well paced game. A 45 second shot clock is not unreasonable, and I challenge you to tell me why a 45 second shot clock is unreasonable specifically.

You'll have to take my word on this because I'm not going to name the coach, but a current basketball coach who has used the stall offense before has told me a shot clock would be an overall positive to the game because in the stall situations, it would let players do what your basketball instincts and competitive instincts tell you to do, which is eventually try to score on a given possession.

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #139 on: January 17, 2018, 01:00:49 pm »
OK, I am as guilty as anyone, what were the original thoughts in this thread?  It was more than just shot clock... We have had fun arguing opposing views on that...

How about the little new rules that are made up each year, just for the sake of having a new "point of emphasis" that doesn't make anything better for anybody?  How about a Republican NFHS president who believes in removing restrictive regulations? lol
Can we not let kids dunk in pre game warm ups?  Is it really that bad of a sin?  Do we have to nit pick the colors of under shirts, head bands, wrist bands, socks, that kids wear?  Can we not step on the sideline to take a charge?  Can we not wear silver or gold as a home color instead of white, especially when white is not one of your official school colors?  Can we not have quality hospitality rooms at tournaments, especially the finals?  Can we not smoke a victory cigar on the sidelines and bleachers when victory is imminent?

Not sure about the cigars ever being implemented, 4real, but I did think the dunk warm up rule was changed? I might have made that up. I know it has changed in certain levels of basketball.

I can understand the intent of the super strict uniform rules, but think it is a bit ridiculous. As long as the players choice of wear isn't dangerous to game or hinder it I think it's fine. (for instance, no jewelry makes sense to me. Don't need ears ripped out). I do think we've seen a bit of relaxing on this type of thing in the games I've seen.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #140 on: January 17, 2018, 01:30:14 pm »
I'm not going to dissect each of you points anymore, but answer this question if you will:

Would you support taking away the 10 second back court violation. Would you support taking away the 5 second engagement rule? And if not, why not?

Also, you do realize other states have implemented the shot clock in high school?

Lastly, no it isn't about "me", but yes it is partially about the fans. Perhaps not in high school as much as other levels of sports, but (when it comes to public schools), guess who pays for the coaches salaries, facilities, and equipment? The taxpayers. Who are the taxpayers? The fans.

We can act like no shot clock is some gimmick that only fans want and they should think of the children first, but that just isn't the case here. Shot clocks only make for a more competitive, well paced game. A 45 second shot clock is not unreasonable, and I challenge you to tell me why a 45 second shot clock is unreasonable specifically.

You'll have to take my word on this because I'm not going to name the coach, but a current basketball coach who has used the stall offense before has told me a shot clock would be an overall positive to the game because in the stall situations, it would let players do what your basketball instincts and competitive instincts tell you to do, which is eventually try to score on a given possession.
Almatrackster... you obviously read at a higher grade level, and write well, too.  That's why your statements make sense.
I wonder if it is a product of nature, or of nurture, that some people cannot understand when a point is valid, or that their own point is not, or that no one else cares?  lol

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #141 on: January 17, 2018, 02:40:56 pm »
The only people that want no shot clock are these people who had no game or kids have no game or coaches who can't develop players. 

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #142 on: January 17, 2018, 03:03:15 pm »
The only people that want no shot clock are these people who had no game or kids have no game or coaches who can't develop players. 
Don't sugar coat it. 

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #143 on: January 17, 2018, 05:25:18 pm »
Also, and this is probably another task in futility as it will never be changed, but does everyone like the setup of how sports happen in the course of the year?

I personally think spring is way too loaded, but I don't know what you'd move. Some states do baseball in the fall.

Offline OB11

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #144 on: January 17, 2018, 07:14:56 pm »
Also, and this is probably another task in futility as it will never be changed, but does everyone like the setup of how sports happen in the course of the year?

I personally think spring is way too loaded, but I don't know what you'd move. Some states do baseball in the fall.

I created a thread on this very topic a while back hoping to spark some discussion about it, but it did not get a good response. I pretty much got bashed for even suggesting this idea be discussed. Guess it was just wrong place, wrong time. Haha.

If you could work around football or even (extreme idea) swap the two sports, it would do both sports well.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #145 on: January 17, 2018, 07:23:23 pm »
Iíve been saying that for years amongst friends too. But, the football elites will not have any of it. Shame too, then FB could avoid the heat restrictions, and kids would be in great shape from BB season.

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #146 on: January 17, 2018, 08:34:34 pm »
Also, and this is probably another task in futility as it will never be changed, but does everyone like the setup of how sports happen in the course of the year?

I personally think spring is way too loaded, but I don't know what you'd move. Some states do baseball in the fall.

With soccer growing at a decent clip it certainly has congested basketball(if you make it deep into postseason), baseball, track, and soccer. I would hate to try and be a multi sport athlete in the spring for sure these days.

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #147 on: January 17, 2018, 08:35:15 pm »
The only people that want no shot clock are these people who had no game or kids have no game or coaches who can't develop players.

+1

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #148 on: January 17, 2018, 08:43:32 pm »
beach, are you a proponent of going back to the 5 classification structure? It will never happen, but I like to bring it up every once in awhile. I know NWA and LR are much bigger than the 6A schools, but I just think competition is better with 7A+6A=5A  5A=4A   4A=3A  3A+2A=2A   1A=1A or something of the sort.

At least they are trying to address this in all other sports but football.

Hey trackster... Yes in all the sports except football I want the 5 class system back. I think in non football sports the size difference gets negated some so the larger number of schools in a class wouldn't hurt the smaller enrollment teams in a classification. I liked the old 64 teams in 2A and 3A back in the day in basketball.

Offline Outoftownfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #149 on: January 17, 2018, 09:27:48 pm »
I'm not going to dissect each of you points anymore, but answer this question if you will:

Would you support taking away the 10 second back court violation. Would you support taking away the 5 second engagement rule? And if not, why not?

Also, you do realize other states have implemented the shot clock in high school?

Lastly, no it isn't about "me", but yes it is partially about the fans. Perhaps not in high school as much as other levels of sports, but (when it comes to public schools), guess who pays for the coaches salaries, facilities, and equipment? The taxpayers. Who are the taxpayers? The fans.

We can act like no shot clock is some gimmick that only fans want and they should think of the children first, but that just isn't the case here. Shot clocks only make for a more competitive, well paced game. A 45 second shot clock is not unreasonable, and I challenge you to tell me why a 45 second shot clock is unreasonable specifically.

You'll have to take my word on this because I'm not going to name the coach, but a current basketball coach who has used the stall offense before has told me a shot clock would be an overall positive to the game because in the stall situations, it would let players do what your basketball instincts and competitive instincts tell you to do, which is eventually try to score on a given possession.

I appreciate how you're not willing to answer my questions but more than happy to ask me more.   :)

I fully support the backcourt rule and the closely guarded rule.  Why?  Because they are only effective if a team presses, traps, plays good man, etc.  A team must defend for those rules to impact the game.  They are rules that reward good defense.

Hometown fans support coaches and programs that win.  Most couldn't care less what offense or tempo a coach uses.  Never heard of a coach that won 25 games being fired because he ran a deliberate offense, but I've heard of plenty that won 4 games using a run and gun offense being kicked to the curb.

I don't care that other states have implemented a shot clock. Move to one of them if it means that  much to you. 

A shot clock is an external factor that forces a team to shoot or give the ball back with no effort from the defense.  Teams that want an uptempo game need to earn it.

You can find current coaches that prefer to play uptempo that will tell you they don't want a shot clock. 



 

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