Fearless Friday Bulletin Boards

Arkansas High School Football => Official's Timeout => Topic started by: N2DEEP on September 24, 2017, 07:07:04 am

Title: Targeting...
Post by: N2DEEP on September 24, 2017, 07:07:04 am
How do officials and the AAA look at targeting in regards to unavoidable contact?

Lets say runner A is running down field and defense B comes in for the tackle at an angle. Defense lowers his shoulder but has his head at an angle to cutoff the runners path. Runner A sees the incoming contact and lowers his head and shoulders to take on the incoming hit (basically ducking his head) and the two players helmets make contact.

In this instance the defesive player was using the right technique but because of the change of head posture by the offense they collided helmet to helmet. How can the defensive guy be called for targeting and or possible ejection? He had no time to modify his hit. Just wondered how people ruled on the player ducking their head into contact.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: Rulesman on September 24, 2017, 10:38:20 am
Doo you have film you can post. We would really have to see the play you describe to making a ruling, but the bottom line is this: ducking his head means he is leading with the crown of the helmet. That’s a foul. Period. The rules committees at all levels want that out of the game. While it may have been the “right technique” before, that it no longer the case.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HeberFan on September 24, 2019, 09:56:55 am

Why does targeting seldom, if ever, apply to offensive players?  Running backs often lower their head when bashing through the line or hitting a defender.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: POWERCAT PRIDE on September 25, 2019, 01:49:29 pm
Doo you have film you can post. We would really have to see the play you describe to making a ruling, but the bottom line is this: ducking his head means he is leading with the crown of the helmet. That’s a foul. Period. The rules committees at all levels want that out of the game. While it may have been the “right technique” before, that it no longer the case.

I don't see where the OP said that B1 ever "lowered" his head. He stated B1 was in the correct posture for a legal tackle, but A1 lowered his head and initiated the contact. Would you call B1 for targeting in that instance?
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: arreferee on September 26, 2019, 03:18:32 pm
I don't see where the OP said that B1 ever "lowered" his head. He stated B1 was in the correct posture for a legal tackle, but A1 lowered his head and initiated the contact. Would you call B1 for targeting in that instance?

If B1 didn't lower his head and lead with the crown of his helmet, it would not be targeting. 
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: RamFan06 on September 27, 2019, 11:45:45 am
Saw this in a 6th grade game last night, (I know its just 6th grade but a good example)....The ball carrier was about to be tackled, lowered his head and hit the tackler square in the chest plate with the crown of his helmet knocking the tackler back and avoiding the tackle. Again, I know this is only 6th grade, but since the discussion turned to the difference between offensive and defensive targeting came up, I thought I would get some opinions on that one.

Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HeberFan on September 27, 2019, 01:23:06 pm
Saw this in a 6th grade game last night, (I know its just 6th grade but a good example)....The ball carrier was about to be tackled, lowered his head and hit the tackler square in the chest plate with the crown of his helmet knocking the tackler back and avoiding the tackle. Again, I know this is only 6th grade, but since the discussion turned to the difference between offensive and defensive targeting came up, I thought I would get some opinions on that one.

Striking with the crown of the helment, if a penalty for one, should be a penalty for all.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: POWERCAT PRIDE on September 28, 2019, 10:12:48 am

Helmet Contact- Illegal
Illegal helmet contact is an act of initiating contact with the helmet against an opponent. There are several types of illegal helmet contact:

1. Spearing is an act by an offensive or defensive player who initiates contact against any opponent with the top of his helmet.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HeberFan on September 30, 2019, 10:54:42 am
Helmet Contact- Illegal
Illegal helmet contact is an act of initiating contact with the helmet against an opponent. There are several types of illegal helmet contact:

1. Spearing is an act by an offensive or defensive player who initiates contact against any opponent with the top of his helmet.

So why is it so seldom called against an offensive player?
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: football_referee on September 30, 2019, 06:37:15 pm
that is a good question
and I don't have a good answer.

Habits are hard to break and this is just an assumption but since running backs are the so called stars of the show it was OK for them to be punishing by the defenders on the field.

I do know this Coaches and fans go ballistic if you call their running back for leading with their heads they think its part of the game and We as officials are slowly training them that this is just as dangerous as a defense player leading with their heads

Several years back it was uncommon to have a runner called for face mask when the stiff arm the tackler if he grabbed and twisted

I can say this in the last 2 years on my crew We have called several fouls on the running back leading with their heads

 
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: POWERCAT PRIDE on September 30, 2019, 08:36:26 pm
Football Ref...you eve call hurdling against the runner? It's in the rule book plain and simple. 9-4-3d
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: football_referee on September 30, 2019, 08:51:53 pm
I have seen it twice, first time was when I was new like first or second year I was so in awl I did not throw the flag, and on the very next play I told the coach I was sorry that I missed it, he said that was ok because he was impressed with it as well.

The 2nd time I saw it was about 4 years ago and I flagged it.  but I still was impressed by it
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: POWERCAT PRIDE on September 30, 2019, 08:57:49 pm
I have seen it twice, first time was when I was new like first or second year I was so in awl I did not throw the flag, and on the very next play I told the coach I was sorry that I missed it, he said that was ok because he was impressed with it as well.

The 2nd time I saw it was about 4 years ago and I flagged it.  but I still was impressed by it

I have watched several college games this year and it seems to be the in thing for the runner to hurdle the tackler. Why is it not called?
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: arreferee on October 01, 2019, 08:41:15 am
I have watched several college games this year and it seems to be the in thing for the runner to hurdle the tackler. Why is it not called?

It's not illegal for the runner to hurdle an opponent in NCAA football.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HeberFan on October 01, 2019, 12:04:07 pm

I think hurdling should be applauded !
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: football_referee on October 01, 2019, 03:56:19 pm
it all boils down to saftey
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HeberFan on October 02, 2019, 11:15:11 am
it all boils down to saftey


If ya' want safety... try chess.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: POWERCAT PRIDE on October 02, 2019, 11:40:43 pm
It's not illegal for the runner to hurdle an opponent in NCAA football.
Oh you mean there are different rules on Saturdays than Fridays and Sundays?  ;D
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: arreferee on October 03, 2019, 09:55:00 am
Oh you mean there are different rules on Saturdays than Fridays and Sundays?  ;D

Just a few.  :)
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HarBer Dad on October 06, 2019, 01:30:50 pm
Is targeting an automatic ejection?
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: football_referee on October 06, 2019, 05:00:02 pm
In High School No
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HarBer Dad on October 06, 2019, 09:05:32 pm
In High School No

Got it.  So if ejected, follows ejection rules and player out for 4 full consecutive quarters.  i.e. ejected Q2, not eligible to return until Q3 next game (assuming first offense).
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HeberFan on October 07, 2019, 09:28:05 am


NFL rules on "unneccesary roughness" on quarterbacks is getting silly.  One play had a defensive player accidentally slap a QBs helment, so he got flagged.  And even though the Mason Rudolph hit was flagged, it looked clean to me. Defender made contact in the upper chest and a little of the lower facemask.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: football_referee on October 07, 2019, 02:39:23 pm
Got it.  So if ejected, follows ejection rules and player out for 4 full consecutive quarters.  i.e. ejected Q2, not eligible to return until Q3 next game (assuming first offense).
The way I understand it yes
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: HarBer Dad on October 07, 2019, 05:01:55 pm
The way I understand it yes

Thank you, very helpful.
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: Adjudicator on October 12, 2019, 12:12:22 am
Got it.  So if ejected, follows ejection rules and player out for 4 full consecutive quarters.  i.e. ejected Q2, not eligible to return until Q3 next game (assuming first offense).

Well...unless the coach of the ejected player appeals the ejection to the AAA and they overturn it.  Happened to us last year.  Player launched, let with crown of helmet, and made forcible contact to the head of the receiver. We had 2 flags on the ground.  Called it targeting with ejection.  Coach appealed and low and behold it was overturned by the AAA.  The player on the receiving end had a concussion and was out for 2 weeks! So the targeting rule in Arkansas is a joke.  But we will keep flagging them and ejecting them and let the AAA overturn them!
Title: Re: Targeting...
Post by: BryanM67 on October 16, 2019, 08:56:53 am
Well...unless the coach of the ejected player appeals the ejection to the AAA and they overturn it.  Happened to us last year.  Player launched, let with crown of helmet, and made forcible contact to the head of the receiver. We had 2 flags on the ground.  Called it targeting with ejection.  Coach appealed and low and behold it was overturned by the AAA.  The player on the receiving end had a concussion and was out for 2 weeks! So the targeting rule in Arkansas is a joke.  But we will keep flagging them and ejecting them and let the AAA overturn them!

Look at it this way, any liability from this would be on AAA, and not the officials.